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When Mormons go through the Endowment ceremony in the Mormon temples, they are given a set of "underwear" known as "garments". Mormons are lead to believe that the garments have "magical properties" and can save them from bullets, fire and accidents. Many faith-promoting rumors are spread throughout the church about the saving powers of the garments - even though not a single rumor can be proven. Mormons cannot make their own garments - they must be purchased from the Mormon Church.
| Mormon Garments - How Mormons Receive The Garments And How The Ceremony Is Performed In The Temple |
Thursday, Apr 13, 2006, at 07:15 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Mormon Garments (Underwear) And New Names |
When Mormons go through the Endowment ceremony in the Mormon temples, they are given a set of "underwear" known as "garments". These garments
must be worn by Mormons for life and no other underwear can be worn. Mormon women must wear their bras over their garments and some mormons
even believe that one must wear the garments during sexual intercourse so the child will be born "under the covenant".
Current prices are at $3.10 for a top and $3.25 for a bottom (men's mesh M) the women's have a much wider ranger going from $3.50 to $6.50. Mormon Garments are sold ONLY by the Mormon Church. Mormons must wear garments to keep their temple recommends.
Mormons believe that the holy garment will protect them from fire, bullets, knives and other assaults if the person wearing the garments have
kept all of their "temple covenants". During the washing and anointing ceremony the Mormon is told the garment "represents the
garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the garden of Eden." The person is told that the garment "will be a shield and
a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work here on earth." In general, Mormons view the
garment as a symbolic and spiritual shield against the powers of Satan. Some LDS believe that the garment provides them with
"supernatural powers" of physical protection. Bill Marriott, prominent Mormon and owner of Marriott Hotels International stated in
an interview with Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes that he believed his garments protected him from being burned during a boating accident.
"The Garment of Holy Priesthood (Garment, Regulation Garment, Temple Garment) is distinguished as the only article of Temple
clothing members are expected to wear outside the Temple confines. It represents the garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the
garden of Eden. It is an undergarment with religious significance and has four symbols known as the "Marks of the Holy Priesthood" sewn into
it. Over the left breast is "the mark of the compass"; over the right breast is "the mark of the square"; over the navel is a mark, and another
appears over the right knee (the latter two are one-inch horizontal lines). These marks remind the wearer of the covenants assumed in
the temple ritual. There are currently a variety of Church-approved Garment styles available for wear (manufactured by the LDS-owned
Beehive Clothing Mills). Garments are currently available in one-piece (ankle-length, long sleeve; ankle-length, short sleeve; button
front; knee-length, short sleeve) and two-piece styles, some of which are available in square back, V-back, crew neck, maternity
and nursing varieties. They may be made of cotton, polyester, nylon, nylon-mesh, rayon and/or rayon-nylon (Bemberg) fabrics. Early
Garments were reportedly made of unbleached muslin and/or cotton."
Garments must be purchased for a price from the Mormon Church. No other outside party can manufacture these garments.
When a pair of holy garments becomes "worn out", the owner of the garment must take a pair of scissors and cut out the embroidered symbols on the
breast, navel and knees. These symbols must then be burned by fire as they are treated as "holy relics". The worn out garment can then be disposed
of by throwing the garment into the trash.
Deceased Mormons will be buried in their temple garments. Dressing the corpse is done by the ward's Relief Society President if the
mortician is not an endowed member, so as not to reveal anything.
THE GARMENT OF THE HOLY PRIESTHOOD:
After showing his Temple Recommend to a worker stationed near the entrance inside the building, the patron
repairs to the men's dressing area, where he is assigned a private locker (dividers and a door ensure privacy). After disrobing
he covers himself with a "Shield"-a white poncho-like linen covering with a hole in the top for his head and open sides (held
shut while walking). Covered in the Shield, he carries one pair of Temple Garments (one-piece style) to the Washing and
Anointing area, and waits on a bench until directed by a temple worker to enter one of the Washing and Anointing booths
through a veiled partition. The booths are simply small cubicles made up of suspended lined veils.
When called for, the initiate enters the booth and hands his Garments to a worker who places them on a towel rod. As
the initiate stands upright in his Shield the temple worker wets his fingers under s small faucet of running water in
the booth, and lightly touches each area of the initiate's body through the open sides of the Shield.
Brother _______, having authority, I place this Garment upon you [for and in behalf of ______, who is dead], which you
must wear throughout your life. It represents the Garment given unto Adam when he was found naked in the Garden of
Eden, and is called the Garment of the Holy Priesthood. Inasmuch as you do not defile it, but are true and faithful to your
covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work
here on earth. WIth this Garment I give you an New Name, which you should always remember, and which you must
keep sacred, and never reveal except at a certain place which will be shown you hereafter. The name is "______."
The New Name is then repeated by the patron, who has now completed the Initiatory Ordinances, and is ready to clothe for the
Endowment. Upon giving the New name, the worker writes either a "1" or a "2" on thee name slip. This indicates which of
the "New Names" in use that day the patron received. The New Name may be almost any given name found in the Bible
or the Book of Mormon. WHen the patron has not undergone Initiatory Ordinances, but is simply about to
do an "Endowment for the Dead" he receives the New Name in a booth, dressed in his white shirt, tie, pants, socks
and slippers. Holding a name slip, he obtained the New Name by the following rite:
VICARIOUS PRESENTATION OF THE NEW NAME:
Brother ______, having authority, I give you a New Name, for and in behalf of ____, (patron and the worker read name of
deceased), who is dead, which you should always remember, and which you must keep sacred, and never reveal except
at a certain place that will be shown you hereafter. The name is "_______".
It should be noted that all Mormon males and Mormon females are given a unique name that is chosen for each day of the year. Therefore,
all Mormons males that enter the temple on a given day of the year will be given the same name, and the name chosen for females for that
day, the females will receive. There are many websites available where a person can go and enter the year, month and day and find out
what their name was.
When a married couple receive their names on the same day, the male will be told the name of the female, however, the name of the male is kept
secret from the female and never to be revealed. This is another example of how Mormonism treats females as second class citizens in the male
dominated hiearchy of the Mormon church.
From Ex-Mormon (anonymous posting):
"It is doubtful that most non-Mormons have any idea that Mormons wear "sacred" or secret underwear. There is nothing in their life that would
equate to wearing regulation underwear and the fear, guilt, keeping up appearances, sneaking to take them off, not telling a spouse, associated
with wearing them.
In order for a Mormon to get into the Celestial Kingdom, a Mormon must take out their endowments. In order to take out their endowments, they must be temple worthy. In order to be temple worthy, they must pay 10% of their income to the Mormon Church. In order to keep the temple covenants, they must wear the magical underwear called "garments". A mormon can only buy their magic underwear from the Mormon Church.
Just the idea that human beings are not acceptable unless dressed in regulation underwear must seem absolutely bizarre to outsiders.
How crazy is it to be afraid to take off your underwear, be seen not wearing it, and how a spouse has to power to destroy your
personal temple clothing if you are not "worthy" in their eyes.
I maintain that the most powerful thing Mormonism does to control it's members by fear, guilt, and shame is the regulation underwear!
The impact is so powerful, the worse kind of entrapment, that the only way for me to deal with the insidious, control and mistreatment
is with humor. I can look back and have a good laugh at how silly and goofy I was and how ridiculous I looked standing in
front of the mirror in that silly old fashioned underwear!
The major thing that sets Mormons apart from all other religions is the regulation underwear.
What we will do to be acceptable in our social approval group is unlimited.
Their power is so subtle that taking them off permanently is not only psychologically difficult, it is physically difficult as well. The
combination of those two factors is what gives Mormonism egregious, unfathomable, total control over it's members. If you
tell a Mormon they are controlled by their underwear, they will vehemently deny it."
| When Mormons go through the Endowment ceremony in the Mormon temples, they are given a set of "underwear" known as "garments". Mormons are lead to believe that the garments have "magical properties" and can save them from bullets, fire and accidents. Many faith-promoting rumors are spread throughout the church about the saving powers of the garments - even though not a single rumor can be proven.
Many Mormon couples conceive their children while both wearing the garments. Some LDS women insist that the child be born while wearing garments so that the child would be born "under the covenant". Huge arguments between LDS patients and their doctors ensue when Mormons refuse to take their garments off for surgery.
Mormons are not allowed to wear any other kind of underwear except garments. They must be worn twenty-four hours a day unless bathing. Women are ordered to wear their bras over the top of their garments.
In all reality, garments in the LDS Church are an absolute control mechanism. It is another key in the Cult of Mormonism to bind a member to the church. If you can create a religion and require your members to wear special underwear, you will have a high level of power over those members.
Those who leave Mormonism find that tossing out the garments is the hardest part of leaving. It can take upwards of two years to finally overcome the fear of removing them.
For more information on the actual temple rituals and pictures of Mormon Garments, Click On This Link.
| I know it's popular to think that converts are pitiful brainless fools, "low quality people" and all that. But just so you know, in addition to everything else we never hear about the church before our dunking day (and maybe for a long time after) I never once heard tell of any magic powers in the temple drawers.
Was I under-informed, ill-advised, naive, credulous and too quick to jump into a Mormon font when I "converted"? Yes.
But I guarantee - one mention of secret jammies with magic powers and I just would have been SO been outta there.
Yes, I was sheltered, shy, inexperienced and fundy-ish (in a Canadian sort of way) when I took the "discussions", arranged through "best friends". But MAGIC? Even I wouldn't have fallen for that one.
Just so you know. :)
I saw garments every day. I was warned two or three times a month to treat them with respect. I heard references to their magic powers on about a monthly basis. I was warned who was wearing them and who to avoid every time we went into town.
"Let's go to that other saleslady. She's wearing garments."
They were deceiving you by not explaining all of this before you were dunked. As if that wasn't bad enough, I count it as an extra inflated and totally inexcuseable, big time, double fib that they didn't talk about it before you went to the temple.
They knew you would needed and want this information. They were, without a doubt, liars to keep it from you.
| Some of you may remember that I'm having trouble getting my great-grandfather's journals from one of my mother's cousins, who won't let any of the rest of the family see them.
Fortunately, however, one volume of his journals -- more of an abridgement of his, actually -- is in the possession of another of my mother's cousins, and he has given me access to the journal. So, I'm spending the day scanning the 300+ pages.
This entry from 1923 made me smile, and I thought it might be interesting to you all too:
"A matter that has caused much talk, and has been a great trial to many occurred this month. The general authorities announced that certain changes might be made in the garments given in the Temple. The collar could be left off, buttons used instead of string, the sleeves shortened almost to the elbow, and the legs shortened to just below the knee. They may also be closed in the crotch. The essential thing was to retain the marks. The old Temple workers were dreadfully shocked at these changes for Pres. Jos. F. Smith had been so positive against mutilating the garments in the least degree, and had sent the sisters home who had come there with shortened sleeves and legs, and had instructed Bishops and Stake Presidents to see to it that all who come to the Temple wear correct garments. Now such sweeping changes are allowed that the faith of many is shaken.
Once again, this proves my theory that the Church doesn't listen to voices raised within its body, but that the Church only listens when people start talking with their feet walking out the door. Ironically, it's apostates like us, who actually give the Church the finger, who ultimately inspire big changes within the Church.
"It seems that the prevailing fashions require the women to wear short skirts, short sleeves, and low necks to their dresses, and it is impossible to wear the old cut of garment with the present style of dress without showing the garment in an unseemly manner. Therefore, many of the young people who do not understand the value or meaning of the garment are induced to get married outside the Temple rather than have to wear it. With these liberties it was thought that more young people would be married in the temple."
The other thing in the above entry that made me chuckle is that the people of the day were scandalized by the sleeves getting shortened to just below the elbow! Yikes! Can you imagine sleeves that long today?
| In reading up on the history of Mormon Garments, I found this doctrinal gem in the Ensign magazine from a GA and former Salt Lake
Temple President: |
"We are at war! Our enemy is not an invading army from a bordering nation or a navy of some
overseas power. Bullets are not whizzing above our heads, nor are bombs exploding in and around our homes. Nevertheless, we
are engaged in a life-and-death struggle with forces capable of thrashing us inside out and sending us down into the depths of
spiritual defeat if we are not vigilant."
"With his prophetic powers, Paul could foresee the wicked conditions
that would exist on the earth in our modern day. ... He knew that armor made of truth, righteousness, faith, spirit, and prayer
would protect people from the “fiery darts” crafted and thrown by Satan and his henchmen."
"There is, however, another
piece of armor worthy of our consideration. It is the special underclothing known as the temple garment, or garment of the
holy priesthood, worn by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who have received their temple endowment.
This garment, worn day and night, serves three important purposes: it is a reminder of the sacred covenants made with the Lord in
His holy house, a protective covering for the body, and a symbol of the modesty of dress and living that should characterize the
lives of all the humble followers of Christ."
"Much, much more could be said about the war for the souls of men
and the whole armor of God. The war on the earth began in the days of Adam, continued down through the years with Moses and the
children of Israel, and still rages in a dispensation known as the fulness of times–a dispensation ushered in by the revelations
received through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Hence, the issue of protective coverings enabling us to withstand the fiery darts
of Satan will continue to be of great significance."
"We must put on the armor of God spoken of by the Apostle
Paul and reiterated in a modern revelation. We must also “put on the armor of righteousness” symbolized by the temple garment.
Otherwise, we may lose the war and perish."
- Elder Carlos E. Asay, “The Temple Garment," Ensign, Aug. 1997, page
For true believers, does this rhetoric scare them into wearing their garments? Why all the fear?
think the history of Mormon garments indicates that they have little or nothing to do with love for Jesus Christ:
As a TBM, were you afraid to not wear your
garments? If so, what were you afraid would happen?
| These are the symbols and the meanings on Mormon Temple Garments:
The square is being true or righteous. The old concept of being square.
The compass is the truth can be circumscribed in one eternal whole - whatever that means.
The navel mark is a reminder of the need for continual spiritual nourishment.
The knee mark is every knee will bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.
| Teaching Moments That I Love - Had An Opportunity To Show Off The Mormon Garments |
Tuesday, Jan 10, 2006, at 07:57 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| What amazes me is the number of non Mormons that know Mormons well, have Mormon relatives, work with and associate with Mormons for decades and have no idea they are wearing regulation underwear they buy from the LDS Church!
In fact, most people refuse to believe me at first. They will claim that their friend wouldn't do that. They aren't "that type of person" and on and on.
Then the shock sets in. "You mean that (insert relative or friend's name here) wears those?"
Yes. I assure them that I know that they do as I know who they are and know they are active, temple attending Mormons.
Then I am asked: "When do they wear them? Only in the temple?"
No, they wear them 24/7!
Then more shock sets in. "No way, they don't wear them at night do they?"
Yes, they do I say~! Millions of Mormons wear that silly old fashioned underwear day and night. They sleep in them and some have sex in them, in fact, it was encouraged at one time.
At this point, they about fall off their chairs laughing! Then it sinks in that the Mormon friends/relatives cannot wear sleeveless clothing, or straps, etc. and they have to wear clothing to cover the garment at all times.
Then they want to know when they can take them off and I explain, only for: doctor appts, swimming, sports, etc. and for sex, but they are to put them right back on after.
It helps to have the photo up on the computer so they can see them when having this discussion!
"How do I know my friend is wearing garments?" they ask.
Simple, I say. You just give them a little pat on the back, rub their back a little up above the bra line on a woman and bingo, kazam, if you feel a little lace up there on her shoulders about 4" above her bra, you have just done "the garment feel up."
For guys, if you are not sure, just pat them on the leg and make sure you feel for the line on their leg!! The girls dating a Mormon do this to find out if he is "worthy" to go out with again!
They are aghast at "the garment feel up" and I assure them that many leaders do that regularly. I don't know how many times I have been patted and stroked on my back to determine if I am wearing garments.
Anyone else remember the "garment feel up?"
It used to be easier to spot the guys wearing the garments because of the "Smile Line" that was visible under their shirt. Now the T Shirt garments make it harder!
Gosh, this is fun!
| Milestones: As Of This Month, I've Been Free Of Mormon Regulation Underwear For Two Years |
Friday, Mar 3, 2006, at 09:20 AM
Original Author(s): Mujun
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| I feel good all under.
In March of 2004, I was just a couple of months along in my apostasy. I had reached my conclusions around the beginning of the year. I was completely at peace with the realization that I didn't believe in Mormonism anymore, but still anxious and uneasy about the whole transition into life outside of it, especially in terms of relationships with family and friends. I was familiar with a lot of the stories on this board, and I knew that garments were a big psychological hurdle. I had been wearing them for nearly eighteen years(not the same pair). My wife was stil active in the church and quite connected to it, so I knew that she would lodge at least a token complaint when I took that step.
My son and I decided to take a boys' trip. We hopped in the car early on a Saturday morning and went to Death Valley National Park. I got dressed in private before we left, donning a pair of Hanes Boxer Briefs in navy blue. By the time we came home on Sunday night, I was more than thirty-six hours away from wearing garments, and knew I wasn't going back. By the time my wife said anything, I had more than a week's momentum under my belt - literally.
It was a couple of months after that before I got around to actually throwing them away. I waited until a day when my wife wasn't home, stuffed them all in a plastic grocery bag from Vons, and unceremoniously threw them into the dumpster.
Since that time, no harm hath befallen me. I've absorbed enough about psychology from Dr. Mujun to know that if God decides to punish me now, it will be totally ineffective in terms of behavior modification. The consequence has to come right after the action, or there isn't enough of a connection in the mind to establish aversion. So, even if I am seriously injured on my way home today, I'll probably keep wearing my civilian skivvies.
For those of you who very recently figured it all out and are now staring into the void, be patient. Things get clearer and better with a little time. Redefining your meaning of life is a scary proposition, but once you reach some degree of equilibrium, you'll realize you would never want to go back.
As one frog said to the other frog, time's fun when you're having flies.
Thus spake Mujun.
| I had bought my special under garments a few days before my wedding. After getting married I would be expected to wear them all times. Well, not while swimming, bathing or having sex, but most of the time.
Shopping for garments was a typical Mormon experience. My sisters had gone over the pros and cons of the various styles and fabrics. Garments were not the most sexually appealing or attractive underwear. They were one piece with an opening in the crotch for necessary bodily functions.
All Mormon women I knew wore traditional underwear over their garments. The garment is designed to cover and protect and had special symbols that are to remind the wearer of the sacred covenants that each person made with God.
Mormons believe that garments offer protection and there are many stories about people being saved because they were wearing them. Mostly though the garment made you a member of an exclusive club. No one else understood the importance, the sacredness, and need for wearing them. This made me fit more in the Mormon culture and made me more of a misfit every where else. This undergarment separated me now in a physical way from other people.
I was anxious to be like my sisters and the other Mormon women. My sisters took me shopping at the temple store where garments could be purchased. It was not a very spiritual experience. My sisters suggested I get the nylon ones, rather than the cotton. They thought they looked better. The garments all looked very similar even though there were ones that had a little different type of neck or lace. We shopped for these special under garments just like other women shop for regular underwear.
I would need to be careful for the rest of my life to not undress in front of non-Mormons in a health club or a public pool. They would not understand. I was in the world, not of it and the garment more than anything represented and reinforced this separation.
The day in the life of a Mormon family.
| Proper Disposal Of Garment Markings As A Mormon And As A Former Mormon. From Fire To The Toilet To Trash! |
Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006, at 09:41 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| When we lived in Wymount Terrace Married Student housing on BYU campus in 2A-53 (third floor) in 1963, I decided to do as I was instructed in the temple and cut out and burn the markings on some of hubby's old garments. We married in August after he served a mission. It would have been six months to the day but I had to wait until I was a member for a year to go to the temple.
That is another story! I had no idea what I was getting into and those temple experiences over the years were the most bizarre, strange, and crazy-making nonsense I could never, ever quite reconcile.
I had only been a member a little over a year and mine were still getting daily use and in fine shape. So, I took several of hubby's worn out garments out of his dresser drawer and laid them on the little kitchen table under the window in the tiny apartment.
Then, I carefully cut the markings out. Next I placed them in a pile in a Campbell soup can. I stuck several matches, until I finally set them on fire.
But, something must have been in the can because it flamed up and the can got very hot! I grabbed it off the table, (okay, I was not a Boy Scout)! I threw it in the sink while I ran cold water over my singed fingers and never determined that I would never do that again! There must be a better way, I thought!
When hubby came home from BYU classes that day, he happened to notice the ring left in the table (we had spent a lot of time painting that table!) and asked what happened. "I must have sat something hot on it!" I said. I never did tell him what!
Sometimes I would cut out the tiny markings and flush them down the toilet a few at a time! One marking (which I didn't know was Masonic!) = one flush!
I used what was left of hubby's cotton ones for rags. They were real good for cleaning the toilet in all those nooks and crannies. They sure made a strange sight with all those gapping holes in them, but I cut away, making nice little square sections, avoiding the seams, neck, leg and sleeve binding and crotch.
Mine were not cotton and not much use. I do remember cutting out the markings, putting them in a bag and throwing them in with the trash also. My preferred method, however was the toilet. I didn't realize, at the time, just how I was expressing my deepest thoughts on the matter of those goofy things!
When I finally ditched the Holy Drawers, in Jan 1995, I put every last one of them in a large white plastic bag. I cleaned out the drawers completely.
Then tied the bag shut making a loop for my hand, threw it over my shoulder like Santa Clause and hauled it out to the front area of the house where the trash cans were sitting, opened the lid and threw them in with a big old thud!
I snickered, then laughed and laughed as I walked back into the house visualizing the trip that plastic bag took from being squashed and pressed tight in the trash truck, then dumped unceremoniously with all the rest of the stinking trash into a huge land fill! Sacred garments -- ya, they are sacred all right!
Done! That was the end of God's control of me by underwear! Makes me laugh every time I think about it!
How did the rest of you dispose of the garment markings?Then how did you use those....rags!!
What did you do with you garments when you decided you were not going to wear them anymore?
Did you have a ritual, ceremony? What?
| Wearing Bras Over Garments A Burden For Women? Are You Kidding? |
Thursday, May 10, 2007, at 12:17 PM
Original Author(s): Not The Girl You Used To Know
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| I bet I could speak for all the women out there when I say everything about wearing Garments is a burden for women.
Wearing two or more layers of clothes over the whole body at ALL times and in ALL seasons is indeed a burden.
Wearing a bra over garments causes rashes in places that can't possibly breathe or get dry, constant tugging to make the whole ensemble of clothes, garments and bra to stay tucked in, even and tidy without garments hanging out, appearing above necklines or leaving lines around the legs or hanging below sleeve and hem lines. Falling bra straps also can bring down the garment sleeve.
Breast feeding a baby is further complicated by having to wear those cumbersome garments. One more layer of clothes to hassle with. Too many wet layers of clothes and you increase your chances for mastitis.
Add to that how very unattractive a woman looks in this underwear and it is no wonder so many LDS women put on weight. THEY NEVER SEE THEIR BODY NAKED!!
Feeling truly feminine in intimate settings is next to impossible while clad in the sacred G's.
Not only was I told that the garment had to be next to the shin, it could not touch the floor and never be washed with anything but white clothes, and never bleached. All this was told to me by the women in the temple who instructed the females getting their own endowments.
The day I quit wearing my garments I felt like a butterfly flying free of it's cocoon.
| I really can't explain it. I took my garments off when I finally admitted to myself that I would never pay tithing again; therefore the covenants associated with them were null and void, so they were nothing more than uncomfortable undies. I had doubted the church for several years before that day - had even attempted to investigate some of my more serious doubts. But I would always feel extremely guilty and return to prayer and repentance (for my evil sin of needing quality answers). When I took the garments off, I didn't want to leave the church - I just wanted to wear comfortable clothing if the garments no longer contained any promise for me.
After removing the garments, I ended up on this site by googling "escape mormonism." I read a well-cited exit story and thought to myself that if even a quarter of the evidence presented was true, I would have to leave. I decided to disprove the evidence. I slept for a grand total of 4 hours during the next 72 hours. I stayed on only church-owned websites (i.e. lds.org to reference scriptural passages, BYU's library to find older texts). To my astonishment, I could not disprove any of the evidence, and actually ended up proving everything I looked up. I am thoroughly convinced that I would never have finished the exercise had I still been wearing the garments.
I have spent the last several months trying to devise a way to get my DW to knowingly, willingly remove her garments. I know that she is a bright, intelligent woman, but wearing the garments keeps her locked in the mormon mind-f*%# to a degree that she can't even see herself as trapped (just as I couldn't). I know that if I can get her to lose the garments, it would be a very short time until she scrutinizes (and leaves) mormonism.
| I Noticed My True Blue Mormon Dear Wife's Beautiful Shoulders For The First Time |
Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009, at 08:11 AM
Original Author(s): Tbh (true Believing Human)
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| She often takes our young, over-active son swimming during the daytime to cool off in this blistering south Texas heat. One day last week I came home from work early while they happened to be out swimming. When my beautiful DW walked in I noticed for the first time, after 5 years of marriage, her shoulders and upper arms were stunning. She was still wearing her swimsuit so her suntanned arms were glaring at me.
"How could we have been married this long and I not notice this before? Am I that blind?"
Then I realized that the garments have been hiding them for 5 years.
When I mentioned this to DW she said, "Well its not like you havent seen them when we are having sex."
"Well my eyes aren't exactly focused on your shoulders then, and lets face it, most of the time, its dark."
So there you have it. It took me 5 years to notice that I love my wife's shoulders. I figure that each time the opportunity arises, I will mention it. After months, years, or decades even, maybe I'll get to see them more often.
| Beehive Clothing is listed on manta.com as having revenue between $100 - $500 million dollars. Even though manta.com won't show you the revenue data if you don't subscribe, you can see this info without signing up by simply by going to their "clergymen's vestments" category and checking "filter by 100 - 500 million" in the sidebar and there it is!
If you divide 100 mil. by $6.00 (assuming $3 for a top and $3 for a bottom), that's 16,666,666.66666 million sales a year. No wonder they could afford to drop the price.
Makes me want to start a church with religious g-string panties so I can become a millionaire.
They sell garments and temple clothes.
Lets just say that the beehive clothing makes an average of 300 M/yr (the median of 100 and 500).
Now go to the official LDS newsroom facts page and look at the monetary value next to "Value of Humanitarian Material Assistance (Since 1985)" == $884.6M since ***1985***!
Beehive Clothing has made more than ONE-THIRD of that figure in ***1 single year***, than the church has given in humanitarian aid in ***25 years***!!!
| I figured I was going to wear underwear of some sort, so even though the garments were a little odd, and the Relief Society president at the time, ordered my first set (the one piece style - this was 1962) in nylon and a size too small when we were going to UT from OR. I about died of the heat. I have no idea what she was thinking! Nylon skivvies in UT in the summer?
Somehow, I managed to get used to them. But the dang things wouldn't wear out. I did manage to save a few bucks and go down to Penny's in Provo about a year later, and buy more in a different fabric that was more comfortable. This was before Distribution Centers) and garments could be purchased over the counter at Penny's in Utah.
I was determined ... After all, this was my new family, and adopted "tribe," new culture, by golly, and I was going to fit in, one way or another!! I was assured by other ladies that I would learn to love them. Hmmm. Well, that was pushing it, but it did get better.
I finally bought the garments in Bemberg Rayon that were a lot more comfortable. I wore them snug to my body and they weren't half bad. I had grown up wearing an undershirt and later a camisole and half slip or a full slip as a properly dressed woman in the 40's and 50's. That probably helped me adjust to the different undies. But the lace--that was another problem. Made me itch! I'm itching just thinking about it! :-)
I never could wear them at night though-- even if I went to bed with them on, I took them off in my sleep! That ought to have been a clue! DUH!! But, I was young and naive and serious and wanted to be a proper Mormon!
I even answered the temple interview questions honestly when asked if I word them day and night. Nope. Can't wear them at night. No bishop or stake president ever batted an eye. No problem! I chuckle when I think back to these interviews and the look on their faces! :-) I think it was TMI! (Too Much Information!)
In fact, at one time, I recall that we were encouraged to have some nice night time wear for..err..ahh..you know...! Of course, it was not worn..... very long.... I had a nice red ditty with fur that lasted for years. (Ya, I know TMI again!)
Later, in the late 70's when the styles changed, I found that the two piece ones had lace that irritated my skin, so I got the Specials Dept to make them without lace and they made a pattern that actually fit me this time! No more seams in the wrong place, and it had a true cap sleeve! And they were not half bad--- in the daytime. But they were too hot in the summer! Miserable things.
FYI: The one piece style is still available for men and women. Some men prefer the one piece. In fact, they used to come with buttons up the front, or a zipper. Don't ask me how I know that! :-)
We were encouraged to be very, very careful about where we wore the garments. We never wore them where they would be visible to others. We never hung them outside to dry, for instance, where they would be visible either. Well, actually, it was OK if they were on an inside line and sheets or something large were hung on the outside lines so they wer not visible! I tried that trick in Utah in Wymount Terrace Married Student housing on a rack on our third floor deck one winter afternoon and forgot to bring them in and they all froze during the night - hard as a board! :-)
I never wore them to try on clothes in a store, or to a doctor's office or the beach, to swim, etc. We always had a set or two of "Gentile" skivvies for those times.
Eventually, when I wanted nothing more to do with Mormonism -- sometime in the mid 90's, and had changed my mind about what I chose to believe in, the garments represented everything I didn't like about the religion: too much control, too invasive, and on and on. that was why I had to, eventually, throw them in the garbage. (That's another story!)
Now, I have made peace with that part of my life. They are just clothing, undies and I don't care who wears them or why. I am married to a believer and he can wear any kind of undies he wants and if that means the garments, that is his right. I am not going to use an ounce of energy on hating someone's undies! :-)
| Temple Recommend Question That Was Asked: Do You Wear The Official Garment Day And Night |
Tuesday, Nov 16, 2010, at 08:01 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON GARMENTS -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| I stopped attending and believing before the newist list of TR questions. Maybe someone can remember exactly how it was asked in the 60's through 90's I have forgotten.
This is the wording of the current TR list:
If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
When asked if I wore the garment day and night, I always replied: no., I cannot wear them at night. Sometimes I explained that I took them off in my sleep! In fact, the lace made my skin itch and I had them made without lace by the Specials Dept. Those bishops and stake presidents questioning me over thirty years, never batted an eye, they gave me the TR every time.
I knew members that were fanatical about wearing the garment and never took it completely off, for intimate moments, and even to bathe. I never could figure out how they bathed with half their body in the tub and half out! But they managed it! This practice seemed to be prevalent with members born in the late 1800's. At least, the only person I knew that was that fanatical about the garment was born in that time.
I noticed that there was a wide variety of how and when the temple endowed members wore the garments. I recall instructions regarding not wearing the garment when it could be seen by others: dressing rooms trying on clothes, going to the doctor, locker rooms, gym changing rooms, participating in sports, running, etc, Generally, Many Mormons did not wear garments under sports attire.
There were a lot of different opinions about what was OK and what was not regarding the garment. I got into a discussion about instructions in the temple about wearing the garment under the bra, or over it. (Over it, when nursing.)
I attended a husband wife meeting one time when the teacher expressed their opinion that having other attire for before intimate times was recommended.
We always considered them underwear, and never wore them around the house our outer wear on.
We were instructed in the temple to cut out and burn the markings then the garment could be used as a rag, or other purposes. So I did. The first time I tried to follow my friends instructions, the can I used to burn the pieces in caught on fire! Fortunately I got it out quickly.
Initially, the garment was very difficult for me to wear, especially since the Relief Society president ordered my first sent in nylon in a size too small, when we were moving from OR to UT! Finally saved up enough money to go down to Penny's an buy some in Bemberg Rayon.
They were a nuisance, no matter how they were made. I got used to them, as much as possible.
At least during the day under my clothes.
But I took them off eventually, in the 90's and never put them on again. Tossed them in the trash. Done. Finished! What a relief!
| Occasionally we have a temple garment thread (no puns here), and here it is. This is specifically speaking of the one-piece garment.
If anyone here remembers them (apparently NormaRae does), the same design was sold in JC Penny's catalogue as a "union suit." No one knows why. Anyway, the top portion was fitted like a T-shirt, except for the gigantic elastic neck that you used to climb into the thing. (Just for fun I tried climbing in through the butt flap, but roommates almost had to call the fire brigade to extract me.) It went down to the kneecap, but a lot of Mormons tried to be "better members" by buying them extra big so that they sagged down to mid-calf. Good times.
The men had a "support cup" to properly hold the junk, and a butt fly that went from high in the small of the back down to the support cup. This allowed you to do your motions in the toilet without stripping down. Then there was a giant elastic panel above the butt flap to allow the garment some give. For modesty's sake, there was a one-inch button that closed the enormous butt fly, and you were always sitting on it, and squirming to get it out of the way of your sensitive cheeks; it would not only hurt, but make a large, button-shaped red imprint on your sensitive butt that might stay with you all day.
Probably the worst thing was when the garments would get soaked with sweat, which was pretty much all the time during the summer months. The cotton breathed, but would get heavy with moisture and begin to sag badly. A lot of people went with nylon, which was light, but didn't stretch or give a bit. When wearing nylon, you were also a walking fire hazard. Other weird things happened with nylon garments. Once one of our missionaries was hit by a car while riding his bike. He slid along the cobblestones, and the nylon garment melted into the fabric of his suit. We called the nylon garments "Comanche garments," meaning they would "sneak up and wipe you out at the pass." (We didn't care that this was an affront to our Native American and Aboriginal Canadian peoples, because we were taught that they were "dark and loathsome" anyway.)
The nylon garments would bite into your neck and shoulder if you moved one way, and would thrust up into your crotch and rear if you bent another way. The heavy cotton ones would give more, but at the end of the day would be half again as long as they were when you started out in the morning.
One of my least favorite things were the "marks" on the chest. In today's garments, the mark is just kind of stitched into the fabric like a button hole that is not slit open. Back in the day, however, they were cut just like a button hole, so that the V of the "compass mark" and the right angle of the "square mark" were actually opened slits connected at their convergence. Of course, they would tear open all the time if not for the fact that garment marks all had a 1 1/2-inch square cotton patch sewn on behind each mark as a reinforcement. These not only had the distinct result of allowing you to be seen from across the street as a garment wearer, but also chafed the nipples in a real bad way. After several washings, the square patch turned into a little ball that produced the image of having an extra two nipples under your shirt.
In time, both the mark and the patch would deteriorate, and the threads on the mark would unravel and the mark would come undone. There were two schools of thought: One was to repair it by taking a stitch or two and lengthening the use of the garment. The other was that repairing the garment was "bad" or "just wrong," and then going out to buy a new pair. Problem was, they all cost $4-5 a set even back then--garment wearing was an expensive pastime.
There were only a couple of benefits to wearing one piece garments. Unfortunately, I don't know what they were. But I do know that if you were particularly lazy during your Saturday morning roll, you didn't even have to take them off to do that thing that Mormons call "that great pro-creative power." (You know--sweaty snugglebunnies.) You could just snuggle and perform the act whether or not you took them off--didn't want to, didn't need to. This made some Mormons of the more National Socialist persuasion believe that it was indeed wrong remove the garment in order to have sex. (There. I said it.) I went round and round with a guy in elders' quorum once about that.
1979 marked the advent, as best I can remember, of the two-piece garment, and I felt so free, almost evil. That was, to be sure, my downfall. Over time I began fantasizing about having colored boxer briefs and nice un-yellowed T-shirts, ones that didn't chafe my nipples, ones I could buy just anywhere, even Costco. Then, yada-yada-yada, I'm drinking coffee and sending in my resignation papers.
| I was told in the temple and other times, that you couldn't just throw the marks away. If you couldn't burn them, you had to shred them into tiny pieces so that no one could possibly know what they were. I practically took mine down to the individual threads, I was so worried about not doing it right.
Tell me it's not a cult when an organization has gotten so far into your head that they have you systematically pulverizing your underwear in a very precise fashion while worrying you might not be doing it exactly right according to the way God wanted it done.
| I was instructed that I could wear the garment tops either way, but that the preference should be with the bra on top. This, to make sure the holiness is closest to the skin I guess?
So- that is the way I wore them, and got used to, and in fact I didn't like them over the garments for two reasons: With them under, I could keep them from riding up and getting in the way of my shirt neckline... the bra held them where I wanted them. And secondly, with them over, if I had any kind of fitted shirt, you could easily see the markings over the breast. Highly embarrassing.
The other point of controversy is how to wear the garment bottoms when you are on your period. With underwear over or under or just the garments only? Any woman can tell you that you need something besides garment bottoms during that time.... they are just not practical!
The fact that a church can have people wringing their hands about the proper way to wear underwear is just ludicrous. And is one of the many reasons I am glad I am no longer part of it.
| When I got my endowment, and when I got married both temple presidents sat down all the live ordinance people and said, "You don't normally get to ask questions in the temple, but now's your chance. What things do you want to know? What don't you understand?"
Both times I said, "I don't understand the shapes and positions of the signs in my garments. The positions on the knee and belly make sense, but the shapes are inconsistent. Whereas the shapes on the chest make sense, but not their positions. I also don't understand their correspondence through the veil, since the chest symbols are used, the knee and belly aren't, and then there are 3 additional marks to speak, hear, and demonstrate the tokens. I figure there has to be some sort of reason for the inconsistency that I'm not understanding."
I had never listened/read anything anti-mormon, so my question was sincere.
I don't know if they assumed I was being anti-mormon, or if they just had no idea about any semblance of an answer, but they got VERY defensive, and said that I shouldn't be asking those questions.
From my confused-but-submissive look, they realized I wasn't anti, and so they defaulted to their cop-out answer of, "just keep coming and praying and the lord will reveal it to you."
When I got married, I responded to that and said, "I don't mean to be impertinent, but I have been attending regularly for 6 years, and EVERY time I have come I ponder that question and search for the answer. I've been told repeatedly that if you ponder a question and go to the temple it will be revealed to you, but I haven't received anything. Can you at least give me a hint?"
He simply responded, "No I can't."
...how I didn't see that as a red flag, I'll never know. Shows just how deep/brainwashed I was.
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