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JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and Polygamy.
| I was reading "In Sacred Loneliness", by Todd Compton, and I came across a passage that hit me so hard that I had to share it (from pages 236 - 239). Joseph Smith received a "revelation" concerning Marinda, Orson Hyde's first wife. While Mr. Hyde was on a three-year mission to Palestine, Joseph told her that the LORD said she should hearken to JS's counsel in all things whatsoever he should teach unto her. The things he taught included polygamy and polyandry! Sidney Rigdon wrote of this situation: "If Richard should take a notion to Hyde's wife in his absence, all that is necessary to be done is to be sealed. No harm done; no adultery committed; only taking a little advantage of the rights of the priesthood. And after Richards has gone the round of dissipation with Hyde's wife, she is afterwards turned over to Smith, and thus the poor silly woman becomes the actual dupe to two designing men under the sanctimonious garb of rights of the royal priesthood." Miranda ended up marrying Smith for eternity in 1842 while Hyde is still on his mission. I wonder if he felt the knife blade between his shoulders all the way over in Israel?
As I read this book, I am taken to ever-increasing heights of outrage in and disgust at the truth behind Joseph Smith's charlatanism and lechery. I still am amazed at how thoroughly the Mormon Church covers his sins and crimes. Your average Mormon will never hear the truth of what really happened. No wonder the "thinking has already been done."
| "Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigations of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant." (in "Recollections of the Prophet Joseph Smith, " Juvenile Instructor, 15 Aug. 1892, 492
I heard this more than once at Stake Conferences etc, from GA's and always wondered about the source.
What a mind bind... Where is the free agency in that
I suppose Jesus is supposed to have said something similar i.e. he who looks back is not worthy of the kingdom...
But I still think the principles of love and free agency transend this way of thinking...
| I ran across a couple of quotes from Joseph Smith that were just too good not to post. Those who are familiar with early Church history will no doubt be familiar with these, but they might be eye-openers for some folks.
These are all from History of the Church, Vol. 6
"I combat the errors of the ages;...I solve mathemtatical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." 
"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in His stead." 
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had...I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." 
We often speak of his penchant for the ladies, or his love of the military, his charisma, his power and control issues, but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?
| Joe Smith used this as a pick-up line for already married women. Here were some very "prim and proper" ladies, married, with children, they join the crutch, Joe sends hubby off to Timbucktoo and tells the lady,"God has revealed to me that you need to become my 'spiritual wife'. Shock and awe are the first responses, then he adds, "Your eternal salvation rests upon this...blah,blah, oh, by the way we need to consumate this marriage."
I had a friend while I was still TBM that had a very good job. It requires shift work, but it pays well and has a great retirement. He told me, "I have to quit because I'm having to work on some Sunday's and I'm concerned about my 'eternal salvation'.
My wife's uncle called her the other night and said he heard that she and I had left the church. "What about your eternal salvation?" She has been reading "In Sacred Lonliness" and these are the same phrases Joe Smith and Breedem Young used to get their way. What a pick up line.
| Someone quoted a part of the "inspired" version of the Bible today. JS changed Matthew 5:41 from
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him a mile; and whosoever shall compel thee to go with him twain, thou shalt go with him twain.
I had never heard this change before. Okay, I understand that JS wanted to change the meaning of the verse. Fine. That's nothing new, even though it completely destroys the idea that Jesus was trying to get across.
What amazes me is that people are able to maintain belief in this despite such a whopping internal inconsistency. Did Jesus say what is in the KJV or in the "Inspired" version? If the latter, why wouldn't he say the same thing to the Nephites a short time later? It is no wonder that this verse is not one of the selected few that made it into the Bible appendices.
The other speaker read from the "Book of Mormon Challenge" in which we are to try to create a new set of scriptures the way JS did. My favorite point in that challenge reads: "When you have finished, you must not make any changes in the text. The first edition must stand forever."
Anyone else find this degree of ignorance offensive?
| I said I was working on a "doozy" for you all (in another thread). . . well, here goes.
Paramount in the story of the Latter-day Saints is the account given by Joseph Smith of a visitation he received from the angel Moroni on September 21, 1823. He stated that after he retired to bed, his room became filled with light. At his bedside stood an angel who called Smith by name and told him that God had a work for the young boy to do. Smith claimed to have been told how, "there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang" (Joseph Smith - History 1:34).
Smith claims that he was not allowed to retrieve the buried plates for another four years. In verse 54 of his testimony, he related that the day he was allowed to dig up the record came on September 22, 1827. Mormon historian Leonard Arrington notes that, "Sometime after midnight in the early morning hours of September 22, Joseph and Emma drove to the hill, obtained the plates and hid them in an old birch log about three miles from the Smith home. With neighboring ruffians seeking the plates, thinking they were of great monetary worth, Joseph changed the hiding place several times and managed to keep them from being discovered and stolen" (Mormonism: From Its New York Beginnings, Dialogue, Vol.13, No.3, p.122). Eventually Joseph Smith would bring the plates home to be translated. His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, remembered the day this way:
"The plates were secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.
After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. lie was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running" (History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, Lucy Smith, pp.107-108).
Smith stated, "These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters, and bound together in a volume as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed" (History of the Church 4:537)
Numerous LDS leaders and historians have concurred with Smith's description. As to the size and thickness of the plates there seems to be no dispute.
Paintings of Smith show him receiving the plates with outstretched arms or resting on his knee. Although these are just an artist's perception, these descriptions do cause us to ask, "If they really existed, just how heavy would those plates have been given the size and description by Smith?"
The answer to this question is varied. We do know that gold weighs about 1200 pounds per cubic foot. Given the dimensions by Smith, some have concluded that the plates could have weighed as much as 234 pounds to as little as 100 pounds. The heavier weight is based on what would probably be the total weight of a solid block of gold measuring the size of Smith's plates. This weight would tend to be unlikely given the fact that engravings on a thin plate of soft metal such as gold would probably not lay perfectly flat. If such indentions did tend to cause the plate to "bulge," it would also seem likely that the engravings would have been difficult to read.
Mormon metallurgist Reed Putnam estimates that if the plates were made of pure gold, they would have probably weighed around 100 pounds. In perspective, that would be like carrying a bag of Portland cement under one's arm.
The possibility of the plates being too heavy for Smith to carry has not escaped the notice of LDS apologists. To credit their founder with the ability to carry such a weight while running at "the top of his speed" would seem to conclude that Smith had no idea how heavy gold really was, thus making it appear that he fabricated this story.
Researchers for the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) have attempted to come to Smith's rescue. In a bulletin cover (number F-15) they provide an explanation for this anomaly. Entitled "Where the Gold Plates Gold?" it theorized that the plates were not made of pure gold at all. Rather, they theorize, that they were composed of an alloy called tumbaga. This Central American alloy, the article states, is made up of 8K gold and copper. In other words, the plates would have been primarily composed of 66% copper and only 33% gold.
The article debunks the notion that the plates could have been made of pure gold since "pure gold would be too soft to make useful plates." However, this argument overlooks Mosiah 8:9 in the Book of Mormon that mentions 24 Jaredite plates that were "filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold."
This argument also fails to take into account a photograph in earlier editions of the Book of Mormon that showed a "gold tablet found in Persia in 1961, dating to the time of Darius II (Fourth century B.C.), covered with cuneiform engravings." The caption went on to say, "This tablet is about the size of the gold plates of the Book of Mormon." In his book entitled An Approach to the Book of Mormon, Dr. Hugh Nibley also mentioned this parallel as evidence to the fact that Smith had plates of gold. If the plates deposited by Moroni were really an alloy made primarily of copper, why go to such lengths?
The FARMS' article supports the tumbaga theory by referring to William Smith, Joseph's brother, who was quoted in the Saints Herald (31, 1884, p. 644) as stating that the plates were a mixture of gold and copper. One can only imagine how William arrived at such a conclusion since there is no evidence to suggest that the plates were ever analyzed. Making William's statement even less credible is the fact that he admitted to having never seen the plates. He claimed, "I was permitted to lift them as they laid in a pillow-case; but not to see them, as was contrary to the commands he had received. They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgment" (A New Witness for Christ in America 2:417). FARMS insists that tumbaga plates would have weighed only about 53 pounds. In other words, it would be like carrying a sack of redi-mix concrete.
Despite the effort from FARMS to change LDS history, it appears that the tumbaga theory is not being taken too seriously. As recently as May 15, 1999, the LDS Church News ran an article entitled "Hands-on opportunity." Speaking of Joseph Smith, it read, "He had also been instructed by an angel, Moroni, who had met with him each year for four years. On his last visit, he was entrusted with plates of solid gold, which he had been translating by the power of the Spirit."
Keep this in mind the next time you stop at a hardware store. Pick up a bag of cement, tuck it under your arm, and imagine yourself carrying it for a distance of three miles running as fast as you can at least part of the way. For added effect you could jump over a display or two.
Physics. . . it's a bitch.
| Just received a new book I ordered from Readers Digest titled, 'Unsolved Mysteries of American History.'
There is a good chapter (number 20), titled, 'What were Joseph Smith's Golden Plates?' In typical RD fashion, this is condensed, only 9 pages. But in spite of it's brevity it does a great job of exposing ole' Joe for the fraud he was. It describes how he plagiarized the B of M, and his gold digging and magical activities prior to the B of M. It mentions 'Book of the Hebrews' by Ethan Smith as one of the B of M source materials.
One sentence is as follows, 'By the end of the century, most historians had concluded that the source of the B of M was the popular culture of the time.'
It spends some time discussing Fawn Brodie's book, 'No Man Knows My History' indicating among other things, 'how he used his religious doctrine to justify his sexual desires.'
At the end of the chapter a page and one half is devoted to the Mark Hoffman story. It describes how TSCC was duped by many of Hoffman's forged documents including the 'Salamander Letter.' It states that besides being motivated by money that he had forged the documents to do double damage: first, by making the church pay him to keep them secret; second by leaking the documents to the press anyway.
Finally, at the end of the chapter it cites several reference materials including: Fawn Brodie's book; Richard Bushman, 'Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism' - 1984; Robert Lindsey, 'A gathering of Saints' - 1988; Steven Naifeh, and Gregory White Smith, 'The Mormon Murders' - 1988; Newell Bringhurst, 'Reconsidering No Man Knows My History' - 1999; Robert Anderson, 'Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith' - 1999. I've read this book and Anderson who is a psychotherapist gives JS the diagnosis of a Narcissist,(someone stuck on themselves). There are other mental illness diagnosis as well cited for ole' Joe. I've read Anderson's book and it is a good read.
When I ordered this book, (Readers Digest, 'Unsolved Mysteries'), I had no idea there would be a chapter on good ole' Joe. That in and of itself made purchase of the book worthwhile.
Since the Readers Digest is widely read I believe millions who would not normally read anything pro or con about TSCC will read this chapter and have their appetites whetted for more. This should be interesting. Stay tuned for more kiddies.
| WASHINGTON – For the past two centuries, historians have invariably portrayed Joseph Smith as either a money-digger and religious charlatan or a religious genius and revolutionary theologian.
But historians today – those of all religious and academic stripes – seem to be reaching agreement that the man who founded The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is far more complex and far more complicated than any of the simplistic biographies that have defined the LDS prophet.
"A small history will not account for such a large man," said Richard Bushman, a professor emeritus of history at Columbia University whose own definitive analysis on Joseph Smith will be released this fall.
"Something in him transcends time and space," he said, adding that historians must now consider the prophet in broader terms than "uniquely American" or simply a product of New England revivalism.
Bushman headlined the morning session of a two-day conference at the Library of Congress on "The Worlds of Joseph Smith," a series of lectures and scholarly commentary commemorating the bicentennial of Joseph Smith's birth.
For many of the LDS faithful in the audience, it was an opportunity to embrace academic debate about the man they revere as a modern prophet. For more secular students of religion, it was a chance to delve into the spiritual nuances of 19th century America with its abundance of restoration philosophy, apocalyptic idealism and millennialism.
Click Here For Original Link Or Thread.
| All Hail Joseph Smith. You can live twice the lifetime of him and never come close what he accomplished. Of course, today if you did what he did, you'd spend quite a bit of time in jail. Theft, deception, polygamy, bigamy, destruction of property, statutory rape and more. The story of Joseph Smith should not inspire any child let alone any adult. The man was a bonafide criminal who through use of deception convinced men to turn over their money and their wives. Today the turning over of wives has ceased, but the turning over of monies is now linked to Celestial Glory. What an amazing money making scheme Joseph came up with that the prophet Gordon B. Hinckley uses to bilk mormons of upwards of 7 BILLION dollars a year.
From Religion News Blog:
The story of founder Joseph Smith should inspire today's young people to do all they can to live their lives rooted in their faith, the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints told the church's youth Saturday night at the Alamodome.
Gordon B. Hinckley, the top leader of the 12 million-member church since 1995, addressed an estimated 15,000 church members on the eve of today's dedication of the church's new San Antonio Temple at 20080 Stone Oak Parkway.
In a brief, encouraging message to the church's young people, Hinckley called the history of the LDS church a miracle, considering that Smith was a farm boy of little education when he founded the church, which has spread to the far corners of the Earth.
"I've lived two and a half times as long as he did, and I haven't even come close to what he accomplished," the 95-year-old president said. His listeners laughed as he added, "Neither will you."
Click Here For Original Link Or Thread.
| As he gets closer to his 200th birthday, Joseph Smith has grown more handsome.
In modern portraits and films, the Mormon church founder's large nose, Napoleonic hairstyle and stout belly have given way to the leaner, tanner look of a California surfer. He seems less remote and more like us.
That may help 21st century Latter-day Saints - more than half of whom have joined in the past few decades - identify with the man they believe ushered in a new Christian dispensation.
Many of the 12 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints plan to spend this year celebrating the life of the farm-boy-turned-prophet who was born Dec. 23, 1805.
Mormon folk will sing "praise to the man who communed with Jehovah." Thousands of teens will dance their devotion in college stadiums. Artists will paint and sculpt his likeness, while the church and various filmmakers retell his story on the big screen.
| The King Follett Discourse provides mormons for much of their current understanding on the nature of god and man -- god was once a man, man can become god. In fact,
The King Follett Discourse is more in line with current Mormon thinking, in regards to the nature of god, than the Book of Mormon, which frequently refers to god as a great spirit. It is interesting that a speech given by Joseph Smith at a funeral carries so much doctrinal weight, but other statements, such as his Indian/Lamanite theories are just opinion. Apologists dismiss the Zelph story becuase it contradicts their limited geography theory, but Joseph claimed to receive that information through a revelation.
Was the King Follett Discourse a revelation? It is interesting how the church cherry picks Joseph's teachings and"revelations" to shape current doctrine. And with Gordo's recent statements about God/man being just a couplet, perhaps the King Follett Discourse is on its way out.
My experience is that most church members and leaders have spoken of the King Follet Discourse as something nearly sacred. Certainly doctrinal.
But, hardly any of them have ever read it, or even know where to find a copy.
| Joseph and Hyrum Smith (both secretly practicing polygamy) tell Nauvoo City Council that the 1843 revelation pertains to ancient polygamy, not to modern times. Under the authority of Mayor Joseph Smith and the Nauvoo City Council, police, members of the Nauvoo Legion under orders of "Lieutenant-General" Joseph Smith and a "possey consisting of some hundred" destroy the press, office and papers of The NAUVOO EXPOSITOR as "a public nuisance."
Afterward the crowd gathers in front of Joseph Smith's house where he, "gave them a short address told them they had done right. That they had executed my orders required of me by the city council that I would never submit to have another libellous publication in [print] established in this city."
| WRIT ISSUED UPON AFFIDAVIT BY THOMAS MORRISON, J. P., STATE OF ILLINOIS, HANCOCK COUNTY, ss `The people of the state of Illinois, to all constables, sheriffs, and coroners of the said state, greeting: `Whereas complaint hath been made before me, one of the justices of the peace in and for the county of Hancock aforesaid, upon the oath of Francis M. Higbee, of the said county, that Joseph Smith Samuel Bennett, John Taylor, William W. Phelps, Hyrum Smith, John P. Greene, Stephen Perry, Dimick B. Huntington, Jonathan Dunham, Stephen Markham, William Edwards, Jonathan Holmes, Jesse P. Harmon, John Lytle, Joseph W. Coolidge, Harvey D. Redfield, Porter Rockwell, and Levi Richards of said counts, did on the 10th day of June instant, commit a riot at and within the county aforesaid, wherein they with force and violence broke into the printing office of the Nauvoo Expositor, and unlawfully and with force burned and destroyed the printing press, type and fixtures of the same, being the property of William Law, Wilson Law, Charles Ivins, Francis M. Higbee, Chauncey L. Higbee, Robert D. Foster, and Charles A. Foster.
`These are therefore to command you forthwith to apprehend the said Joseph Smith, Samuel Bennett, John Taylor, William W. Phelps, Hyrum Smith, John P. Greene, Stephen Perry, Dimick B. Huntington, Jonathan Dunham, Stephen Markham, William Edwards, Jonathan Holmes, Jesse P. Harmon, John Lytle, Joseph W. Coolidge, Harvey D. Redfield, Porter Rockwell, and Levi Richards, and bring them before me, or some other justice of the peace, to answer the premises, and farther to be dealt with according to law.
`Given under my hand and seal at Carthage, in the county aforesaid, this 11th day of June, A. D., 1844. [Signed] THOMAS MORRISON, J. P.'
Early in 1843 a group of members of the Church at Nauvoo, including Joseph Smith's second counselor and one of the presidents of the Nauvoo Stake and several business and professional people, commenced opposing Joseph Smith because of new doctrine and practices which were introduced in the Church. Foremost among these so-called objectionable tenets were the practice of plural marriage, eternal progression of man toward godhood, eternalizing of the marriage covenant, the endowment ceremony, and the political kingdom of God with its secret Council of Fifty. After these men were excommunicated from the Church in April 1844, they purchased a press and published a paper entitled the Nauvoo Expositor, the only issue appearing June 7. This first and last edition of the paper declared that Joseph Smith had become a tyrant, ruling Nauvoo contrary to American principles of separation of church and state; that he had introduced into the Church doctrine and practices which were contrary to the original teachings of the Church, particularly that secretly he was practicing plural marriage which they termed "whoredoms and abominations." They announced their intention to seek the repeal of the Nauvoo Charter so that Nauvoo might become a city governed by American standards of democracy.
The Expositor appeared on Friday afternoon, and the following morning and the Monday thereafter the city council met to consider its threat to the peace and security of the city. With the powers granted by the city charter, they declared the newspaper a nuisance, as they felt its declarations threatened the security of the city. They authorized the mayor (Joseph Smith) to see that the nuisance was abated. The Prophet instructed the city marshal to abate the nuisance which he and his men accomplished by breaking into the printing shop, throwing the press into street where it was smashed with a sledge hammer, dumping the type into the street, and burning the undistributed copies of the newspaper. Such an extralegal method of abating a newspaper was not without precedent in Illinois (though not in keeping with long established practices concerning abatement of a public press), but it was viewed as a violation to the federal Constitution which forbids destruction of property without due process of law. The city council had only the authority to abate the nuisance by suspending further publication of the paper pending a court hearing which would determine whether it was a public nuisance.
The proprietor of the paper went to Carthage and swore out a warrant for the 18 members of the city council, charging that they had violated the federal Constitution by destroying property with the resultant implication of "suppression of the freedom of the press." In response to the charge 15 members of the Nauvoo city council appeared before the justice of the peace in Carthage on Tuesday, June 25, and were bound over to the next term of the circuit court on bail of $500 each. Jointly they posted $7500 in bonds and some of them returned to Nauvoo that afternoon. Joseph and Hyrum, however, remained in Carthage to have an interview with Governor Ford. While awaiting audience with him, they were arrested on charges of treason and rioting for having used some of the Nauvoo Legion to assist the town marshal in the destruction of Expositor equipment. For this charge they were committed to the Carthage jail that afternoon.
| Philo's post about Shakers having multiple witnesses to some of their divine visitations led me to find some great stuff on Google.andnbsp;
Click here for the title page and table of contents of the book I reference. andnbsp;Note it was published in 1816.
From the Testimony of Mother Lee and the Elders (click here):andnbsp;
Mother Ann, and the Elders with her, uniformly taught the doctrine of a free offer of the gospel to all souls, whether in this world, or in the world of spirits. That none could be deprived of the offer of salvation because they had left the world before Christ made his appearance; or because they had lived in some remote part of the earth, where the sound of the gospel had never reached their ears. Their labors in the work of regeneration were not confined to this world, but extended to the world of spirits, and their travail and sufferings for the salvation of departed souls, were often distressing, beyond description
Another of the excerpts from the above mentioned book:
Men and women in this world can please themselves, by gratifying their lusts, and if they do not overcome their passions by the gospel, they carry them into the world of spirits with them. Death does not destroy these passions, nor make them less powerful; but souls in hell feel their lustful passions rise intensely stronger than in this world; and yet they can find no way to gratify them; therefore, their lust is their torment; and it torments them in proportion to its rage.
And more here:
You must remember the poor and needy, the widow and the fatherless; and deal out your bread to the hungry, and your clothes to the naked. Your natures will say, ?They may work and get these things for themselves.' But Christ said, 'Give to him that asketh, and of him that would borrow of thee, turn not thou away.' If I had but two mouthfuls of bread, I would give to him that needed; and, if I had but two coats, I would give to him who had none. You must put away your covetousness, your lust, and your filth, and be prepared for the increase of the gospel; for the time will come when this gospel will be preached to all nations, and many will flock to Zion to hear the word of the Lord."
How about this revelation?:
Hearken unto the voice of the Lord your God, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people. The Great I AM is beginning to pour out his spirit upon the earth; and many will be struck with consternation at what they behold; and many will be provoked in their spirits, to persecute and abuse those who are the subjects of strange and mysterious operations.
Or this revelation:
I AM, is GOD; whose power is Almighty, and whose glory and beauty filleth all immensity and space; yet the least creature of my creation, is an object of my particular notice; either in mercy or in judgment. And with Me, time does not exist, for before time was, I AM, existed; and the after Me can never come.
7. JEHOVAH JAH, is my name; through endless worlds I am known; fulfilling, to the least jot and tittle, that which I have promised through the mouths of my true and faithful servants.
8. All creation, that mortals can comprehend, should pass into oblivion, rather than one word from my mouth should fail of being accomplished
It's like shooting fish in a barrel.andnbsp;
Go here and see what Doctrine and Covenants or Book of Mormon ideas you can find. andnbsp;
| I'm certain that if you ask about anyone what a martyr is they would say it is someone who dies for their beliefs. But where does the term martyr come from?
Martyr comes from the Greek to witness (martys). The act of witnessing is called martyia in the Greek and signifies a legal testimony. Because of the fact at the time of the apostles and the patristic fathers that the act of giving testimony of Christ resulted in death and often an ignoble death, the term "martyr" began to be synonymous with death because of being a Christian.
Now how does this relate to Jospeh Smith. The first question is "was Joseph killed as a direct result of his testimony of Christ and the Church?" I believe we can answer this one no. Joseph was jailed because he destroyed a printing press of a paper that divulged his polygamous acts. This together with the atrocities that the Mormon's took part in, in the killing of innocents in Missouri and the rise of the political and physical threat from the Nauvoo legion etc, the locals could be construed as acting out of fear for their lives.
In reading any of the accounts of the martyrs from the apostolic and patristic periods, we may see that they went willingly to their deaths in defense of their faith. Smith was not asked to renounce his faith or die. When the murderers attacked Smith and the others in the jail he went down in a blaze of glory, killing or wounding a number of men with a smuggled pistol. And instead of calling upon God when he meant to possibly jump from the window, he uttered a Masonic Oath of help.
Joseph Smith a martyr? I do not think so.
| Not much has changed in the debate over the bona fides of Mormon founder Joseph Smith since he claimed to have communed with God in a New York maple grove in the spring of 1820.
In the bicentennial year of his birth, Latter-day Saints worldwide still extol the integrity of their church's founding prophet, while detractors continue their unrelenting assault on his intentions. He is at once visionary leader and religious charlatan.
Yet, in the 175th year of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its enduring vitality may have rendered moot the question of whether Smith truly translated ancient Scripture etched on golden plates or made up the tale out of whole cloth.
| The church has spent a lot of money on its new web sight JosephSmith.net. It is a faithful hard-on for the prophet. Full of glossy details about JS's life, in the authorized Boyd K. Packer sanctioned faithful history mode. My friend, a BYU Professor is in charge of this project. Sadley, it is exactly what one would expect from the church...a whitewashed portrayal of his life.
No mention of his treasure seeking /glass looking days.
No mention of his looking in a hat for his supposed translation.
No mention of his second sight activity.
No mention of his marrying other men's wives.
No mention of his polygamy.
No mention of his being crowned King of the earth.
No mention of his ordering the death of a sitting governor of Missouri.
No mention of his bank and real estate frauds.
No mention of his drinking activities.
No mention of his threatening woman with destruction if they turned down his marriage proposals.
No mention of his unfulfileld prophecies
No mention of his posthumously changing canonize scripture
No mention of his inability to keep his fact straight when telling a story (First Vison)
No mention of his socopathic tendancies
Basically it is just a total whitewash of his life.... no warts...Gee, Joseph was such a great guy...an amazing historical figure...One of the top 100 Americans...
Only problem is that it is all a sham....
But I wouldn't expect anything else from the church...they will NEVER be honest with their Main Man Joseph...just like his lies...he NEEDS lies to prop him up so the church can continue to worship him...
| I picked up Larson's, "By His Own Hand On Papyrus" again. Just to have something to thumb through while I rode the spin bike at
the gym. I stumbled upon a tidbit that I missed when I previously read the book 4 months ago. |
machinations contained in his Egyptian grammar and alphabet writings.
The book is vague re the grammar and alphabet and
does not spend a great deal of time on it. I dare say an entire book could be written on it. It blasts things out of the water.
I wondered why more was not expounded upon it. The few pages Larson spends on it are rather devestating to the final product
contained in the Book of Abraham.
The grammar, explained by Smith, incorrectly purports to have various egyptian
characters which contain "degrees" and inflections. He explains the "degrees" as 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Each egyptian character,
according to Prophet Seer and Revelator Smith, is capable of all five degrees depending on how it is written. Larson goes on to
explain Smith's "discovery" that the egyptian character, depending on what degree it is written in means progressively different
and expanded translations. Keeping in mind that this "discovery" came directly from God, I found myself battling with the waves
of nausea... again. This whole thing just stinks. But I digress.
Smith has the 1st degree
translating into, usually, a simple 2-3 words from the one character. However,when the same character graduates to the 5th
degree... Hooahhhhh! That same character can mean a paragraph.
Of course this was all later discovered to be utter
green horse poopy.
But what nearly sent me sprawling to the floor thrown from my spin bike seat of which I was madly
peddling on... was the fact that this hand written explanation by Smith of egyptian grammar contains demonstrations, explanations
and actual translations of certain characters. It was as if Smith planned to teach a course on how to read Egyptian!
Abraham 1:23, 24
" 23. The land of egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of ham, and the
daughter of egyptus, which in the chaldean signifies egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden."
this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from ham, sprang that race
which preserved the race in the land"
All that above basically translates from one egyptian character written in
the 5th degree. Which, of course, I can't write here (no egyptian keys on my computer)...but Smith translated that character to
Iota toues Zip Zi
Smith classifies the character as being in his bogus "5th
degree"... and thus milks two paragraphs out of it.
So "Iota toues Zip Zi" is, for the better part, Abraham 1:23,24.
Which is complete green, steamy, fly infested, soon to be hardened in the sun, horse poo. There is nothing palatable
about this.Or am I missing something? eh? hmmm?
But Smith said it was so. And for years the church thought Smith was
How does FARMS wiggle out of this?
Is this not extremely damning
to Smith's credibility?
Wasn't this Egyptian Alphabet and grammar written in Smith's own handwriting and don't
we have numerous journal entries and publications where Smith logs that he continues laboring in the papyri translations?"
| I love to buy books at garage/yard sales and a few years ago, I bought a book published by Readers Digest for $2.00 about ancient America with lots of great pictures and historical information that I laid flat on the bottom shelf of a huge bookcase because it was so large.
I had not paid particular attention to it until my TBM hubby, in an effort to prove I am wrong about my assertions that JS told a whopper, found it in our bookcase and plopped it down in front of me, with great glee as proof that Joseph Smith was correct, opening it to the section:
"Lost Tribes in the New World."
The book is called:
"Mysteries of the Ancient Americas" The New World Before Columbus
Published by Readers Digest 1986
The information related in this book explains many of the reasons why people in Joseph Smith's time would believe wholeheartedly that the American Indians were Hebrews from Israel with Biblical underpinnings in their religions.
Here are a few short quotes from one chapter:
"Lost Tribes in the New World" pg. 32-38
The thrust of this chapter is the lost tribes from the Biblical accounts.
There is also a section on: Descendants of "White" Indians -These blue eyed Indians were sometimes called "Welsh Indians," as there were claims that they were conversant in the Welsh tongue.
An author in the late 18th century, James Adair, a trader in Indian territories for at least 40 years said that he heard chants among he Choctaw and Chickasaw and their neighbors that he said was the name Jehovah which he said was the Indian phrase for dead or lost.
Another phrase he said meant "gone to Canaan" and he claimed that the word "kora" was borrowed unchanged from the Hebrew.
This is a fascination book and shows two drawings and the research of Lord Kingsborough (Edward King, Viscount Kingsborough) who, in the 19th century was a young member of Parliament.
He "was convinced that the Indians of Mexico were directly descended from Israel's Ten Lost Tribes. As proof he spent his fortune on reproducing volumes of Aztec codices that, he claimed illustrated biblical events. "
He relied heavily on Adair. He died in 1837 pg. 37
In 1650 one answer to the "Jewish Ancestors" question was published "The Hope of Israel" by Manasseh ben Israel, a rabbi in Amsterdam.
He told of a Spanish Jewish traveler, Antonio de Montezinos whose Indian Guide on one South American trip greeted him with "Shema Israel (Hear, O Israel)" pg 36
This author saw Old Testament customs in practice: ritual calendars, purification rites, circumcision, flood myths, sacrifices to gods, the veneration of a tribal ark.
Now turn to page 40 and imagine my surprise to see a large picture of a painting of Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni delivering the golden plates on a hillside in New York.
Here are a few quotes from the several paragraphs relating to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon:
"According to Mormon history, these plates told how their ancestors came to America from the "land of Jerusalem."
"No other document, inscription, or legend now known shows a lose correspondence with this account of the peopling of America, but there are tempting inferences that can be drawn from the evidence that does exist."
"It is wishful thinking, then, or the legacy of Spanish political propaganda that keeps alive the belief that the native Americans were eagerly awaiting the coming of he white man in the 16th century - (referring to Quetzalcoatl).
So far as is known, today, the existence of such a thing had never been imagined by the Aztec or Inca."
"We now know that Viking kings preceded Columbus to North America by 500 years."
This is a huge book with over 300 pages and hundreds of beautifully done pictures.
This book I referenced, shows that the combination of the Spaniards and the subsequent peopling of America from Europe with their acceptance of Biblical history as their religious reference point,(and a great reliance on it being historically correct) led many to interpret the languages and drawings of the Indians as having Hebrew - Old Testament correlations.
Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon fell right in line with the thinking of the day. He went along with what he read that was accepted as the prevailing notions of the history of the American Indians.
What he claimed in his stories in the Book of Mormon was plausible. Even the procurement of the claimed original documents by angels, and visions, was religiously acceptable as a representative manifestation of God working in their lives.
Understanding this background shows that it was not hard for Joseph Smith to gain so many followers.
It might explain why even Jewish people would go along with Joseph Smith's claims.
Believing Mormons, nearly 170 years later will take anything even remotely resembling an acceptance of a tiny scrap of fact or possible evidence or opinion, and use it to prove Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon is a true, factual book.
I was astounded to find a book published in 1986 with references to the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. After reading the whole chapter, I understood why it was included.
Correlations between the American Indians and the Bible seems to be more a matter of heavily invested religious beliefs and wishful thinking of the times.
| Did Ethan Smith's Book, "View Of The Hebrews" Furnish The Structural Material For Joseph Smith's Authoring Of The Book Of Mormon |
Saturday, Sep 3, 2005, at 08:26 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1 -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| There is much debate on where JS got the ideas that he included in the BoM. One popular theory is that it came from a book by Ethan Smith, titled "View of the Hebrews", that was easily available to JS in Palmyra in two editions published 5 and 8 years prior to the publishing of the BoM. Ethan Smith lived in the ajoining county to the residence of JS. B.H. Roberts, in a book titled "Studies of the Book of Mormon", gives one of the best presentations that I have read, that indeed JS may very well have gotten his ideas and material from Ethan Smith's book.
B.H. Roberts (who died in 1933) is described as "Mormonism's most competent historian and leading theologian, as well as the most aggressive exponent and capable disputant in its leadership, Roberts quite naturally, and certainly very effectively, filled the role of chief defender of the faith." This book was published in 1985 from some of his unpublished manuscripts, and is defended by Church apologists as his playing "the Devil's advocate" in his research of possible non-divine origins of the BoM. He has won me over to the idea that JS had to have used the Ethan Smith book as a guide to his authoring the BoM. Let me quote a section of Roberts's book and then you be the judge:
(pg 240) "The material in Ethan Smith's book is of a character and quantity to make a ground plan for the Book of Mormon: It supplies a large amount of material respecting American antinquities - leading to the belief that civilized or semi-civilized nations in ancient time accupied the American continents.
It not only suggest, but pleads on every page for Israelitish origin of the American Indians.
It deals with the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Israel, as the BoM does.
It deals with the future gathering of Israel, and the restoration of the Ten Tribes, as the BoM does.
It emphasizes and uses much of the material from the prophecies of Isaiah, including whole chapters, as the BoM does.
It makes special appeal to the Gentiles of the New World - having in mind more especially the people of the United States - to become the nursing fathers and mothers unto Israel in the New World - even as the BoM does, holding out great promises to the great Gentitle nation that shll occupy America, if it acquiesces in the divine program.
It holds that the peopling of the New World was by migrations from the Old World, the same as does the BoM. It takes its migrating people into a country where "never man dwelt," just as the BoM takes its Jaredite colony into "that quarter where there never had man been."
In both cases the journey was to the northward; in both cases the colony entered into the valley of a great river; they both encountered "seas" of "many waters" in the course of their journey; in both cases the journey was a long one. The motive in both cases was the same - a religious one; Ethan is prominently connected with the recording of the matter in the one case, and Ether in the other.
Ethan Smith's book supposes that his lost tribes divide into two classes, the one fostering the arts that make for civilization, the other followed the wild hunting and indolent life that ultimately led to barbarism, which is just what happens in the BoM peoples.
"Long and dismal" wars break out between Ethan Smith's civilized division and his barbarous division. The same occurs between Nephite and Lamanite, divisions drawn on the same lines of civilized and barbarous in the BoM.
The savage division utterly esterminates the civilized in Ethan Smith's book; the Lamanites, the barbarous division of the BoM, utterly destroy the civilized division - the Nephites.
Ethan Smith's book assumes for the ancient civilized people a culture of mechanic arts; of written language; of the knowledge and use of iron and other metals; and of navigation. The BoM does the same for its civilized peoples.
Ethan Smith's book assumes unity of race for the inhabitants of America - the Hebrew race, and no other. The BoM does the same.
Ethan Smith's book assumes that this race (save perhaps, the Eskimo of the extreme north) occupied the whole extent of the American continents. The BoM does the same for its peoples.
It assumes the Indian tongue to have had one source - the Hebrew; the BoM makes the same assumption for the language of its peoples.
Ethan Smith's book describes an instrument among the mound finds comprising breast plate with two white buckhorn buttons attached, "in imitation of the precious stones of Urim," says Ethan Smith. Joseph Smith used some such instrument in translating the BoM, called Urim and Thummim.
Ethan Smith's book admits the existence of idolatry and human sacrifice, the BoM does the same.
Ethan Smith's book extols generosity to the poor and denounces pride, as traits of the American Indian; the BoM does the same for its peoples. Ethan Smith's book denounces polygamy, the BoM under cetain conditions does the same as to David and Solomon's practices.
Ethan Smith's book quotes Indian traditions of a "Lost Book of God" and the promise of its restoration to the Indians, with a return of their lost favor with the Great Spirit. This is in keeping with the lost sacred records to the savage Lamanites of the BoM.
Ethan Smith's sacred book was buried with some "high priest", "keeper of the sacred traditions"; the BoM sacred records were hidden or buried by Moroni, a character that corresponds to the Indian tradition in the Hill Cumorah.
Ethan Smith's book describes extensive military fortifications linking cities together over wide area of Ohio and Mississippi valleys, with military observatory or "watch towers" overlooking them; the BoM describes extensive fortifications erected thoughout large areas with military "watch towers" here and there overlooking them.
Ethan Smith's book also describes sacred towers or "high places" in some instances devoted to true worship, in other cases to idloatrous practices; the BoM also has its prayer or sacred towers.
Part of Ethan Smith's ancient inhabitants effect a change from monarchial governments to republican forms of government: BoM peoples do the same.
Some of Ethan Smith's peoples believed in the constant struggle between the good and the bad principle, by which the world is governed; Lehi, first of Nephits prophets, taught the existence of a necessary opposition in all things - righteousness opposed to wickedness - good to bad; life to death, and so following.
Ethan Smith's book speaks of the gospel having been preached in the ancient America; the BoM clearly portrays a knowledge of the gospel had among the Nephites.
Ethan Smith gives, in considerable detail, the story of the Mexican culture-hero Quetzalcoatl - who in so many things is reminescent of the Christ; the BoM brings the risen Messiah to the New World, gives him a ministry, disciples and a church.
Can such numerous and startling points of resemblance and suggestive contact be merely coincidence?"
Sorry for the length of the post but thought it important to bring out this evidence coming from one of Church's best defenders of the faith for those TBM lurkers or those sitting on the fence. Seems to me to be pretty convincing evidence of where JSs ideas for the BoM came from.
| From the Oxford Press (local paper in Oxford, Ohio and not to be confused with the Oxford University Press)
Book traces area ties in 1844 murder of Mormon leader
Assassination was result of political aspirations
To read the entire review, here's the link.
"Junius and Joseph: Presidential Politics and the Assassination of the First Mormon Prophet", by Robert S. Wicks
Anyone read this book?
Wicks said he and Foister found lots of connections between southwest Ohio and Smith's assassination. Wicks said that his book contends that Smith's murder in 1844 was not what was previously thought of to be a mob uprising, but a political assassination that dealt with his involvement with the Mormon Church and his presidential bid.
I know this isn't a new theory in this circle or even among TBM's because I recall my mother telling me of this theory. But here is presented evidence that, though various predjudices against Smith abounded, it was his move into state and national politics that enabled the events that led to a political assassination...not a religious martyrdom.
Wicks' book examines Smith's effort to build a Mormon theocratic state in America, which brought him into disagreement with the Whig Party's political ideology. Smith and his followers wanted to accomplish a larger religious goal, and when he made his presidential bid it created not only strong supporters, but angry opponents.
Clash of political ideology and rise of a theocratic state...not the devil trying to destroy the Church and the Gospel. Hmmmmm...
Is it possible that "faithful history", (credit to bob mccue for this so-called), is once again shallow beyond credibility when it comes to the subject of Joseph?
| Mormon History 101: As A Mormon Did You Know This Is How The "Nephite Record" And "Urim And Thummin" Were Recorded In The Mormon Church History Books? |
Sunday, Sep 4, 2005, at 08:27 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1 -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Mormon History 101 appears to be a class that can be only taken on line on the RfM site! :-)
Come here to find out things you did not know -- the little known facts of how Mormonism came about!
This is where the only truth about Mormon history is taught, right from their own words, as recorded at the by their own authorized authors.
This is info from a standard history book of the Mormon Church:
" "A Comprehensive History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." by B.H. Roberts
VOL 1 "How the Book of Mormon was Obtained"
These books are in the LDS Data base on CD, also in their libraries (Ward/Stake/Institute of Religion)in the REFERENCE section.
I own the whole set in paperback which I purchased in the late 70s before they were discontinued.
A few notes:
B H Roberts says that they were dressed "for riding" by taking the horse and spring wagon of Mr. Knight (some would call this stealing, as they did not ask permission of Mr. Knight who was a guest in his home) and went to the "hill Cumorah, and in he presence of Moroni obtained the Nephite record, the breast-plate and Urim and Thummim.
pg. 87, "Early the next morning, Mr. Knight discovered both his horse and wagon were gone, suspected some "rogue had stolen them. Lucy Smith volunteered no information as to Joseph having made use of the horse and wagon, but tried to pacify Mr. Knight with the idea that they were but temporarily out of the way."
When Joseph returned home, he took his mother aside and showed her the Urim and Thummim which he had evidently detached from the breast plate and concealed on his own person when depositing the plates...he seemed to have kept the instrument constantly about him after that time as by means of it he could at will be made aware of approaching danger to the record."
The next chapter is entitled: pg. 88 Other Psychics Than the Prophet "The fact was that Joseph Smith was not the only psychic in the vicinity of Palmyra."
He had previously asked Lucy (his mother) very early in the morning if she had a chest with a lock and key but she could not locate one.
This is the reason Joseph pg. 86 "concealed them temporarily, in the woods some two or three miles distant. He found a fallen birch log that was much decayed .....carefully cutting the bark and removing sufficient of the decayed wood to admit ...the plates, ...they were deposited in the cavity, the bark drawn together again and as far as possible all signs of the log having been disturbed obliterated."
Pg 93 - "The Breastplate of Urim and Thummim
"It has been several times remarked that with the plates on which a brief history of the ancient American peoples was engrave, there was an ancient breast-plate to which, when the Prophet took possession of it, the Urim and Thummim were attached.
This breast-plate it appears the Prophet did not bring home with him when he brought the record. But a few days later, according to a statement by Lucy Smith, he came into the house from the field one afternoon and after remaining a a short time put on his "great coat" and left the house.
On his returning the mother was engaged in an upper room of the house preparing oilcloth for painting - it will be remembered that this was an art she has followed for some years. Joseph called to her and asked her to come down stairs. To this she answered she could not then leave her work, but Joseph insisted and she came downstairs and entered the room where he was whereupon he placed in her hands the Nephite breast plate herein alluded to.
'It was wrapped in a a thin muslin handkerchief,' she explains, 'so thin that I could feel it's proportions without any difficulty'. It was concave on one side, convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material, for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them). and they had holes in the end of them, to be convenient in fastening. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummin."
I highly recommend reading the B H Roberts books. They are filled with things you have never heard in church. The set comes with an Index, which in invaluable also.
It is no wonder these stories have been sanitized into faith promoting versions over the years. The real history is just too wild and crazy to believe! :-)
This was the kind of information that finally hit home. There was no way Joseph Smith Jr was telling the truth about anything.
He made up his stories, visions, religion, and BOM fiction from the get-go from many sources available to him at the time, ("View of the Hebrews by Ethan Smith, no relation, Solomon Spaulding writings, Emanuel Swedenborg writings, Bible, and many others) and the best that could be said for him is that he created a faith-based hoax/scam that Brigham Young could use! These young men were on a path to create an isolated religion and hold their power close to the chest.
Thanks to the Brighamites, Mormonism is still alive and well today as a huge conglomerate of investments, businesses, and acquisitions.
See my other post: http://www.wingnet.net/~erickett/boar...
[edit for correction]The Mormon Church is only part of it's financial empire. I don't know how this works. Date: Sep 03 13:30
| NORWICH – County historians have rediscovered historical records proving the founder of the Mormon Church was arrested on several occasions while living in Chenango County.
The papers turned up after a three decade absence, and may prove to be the most historically significant discovery in the modern history of the area.
The documents, which have recently been turned over to the Chenango County Historical Society, include legal bills from separate charges filed against Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). The religious founder, the bills show, was arrested three times in the county between 1826 and 1830. County Historian Dale Storms said the cases involved Smith’s involvement in “glass looking,” or searching for treasure, and “being a disorderly person.”
“From the beginning, there have been people who have been against the Mormon religion. They sought to discredit him by saying he was arrested all over throughout Bainbridge,” Storms said. “It is not a small thing. ... These are important papers to a major religion.”
NORWICH, N.Y. Records showing that Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith was arrested while living in upstate New York have resurfaced after a three-decade absence.
The documents dating back to the late 1820s were recently handed over to the Chenango County Historical Society by a man whose mother used to be the county's historian.
The current county historian, Dale Storms, says the records pertain to Smith's arrests for "glass looking," a 19th-century term for treasure hunting. One document is a bill for two dollars, 68 cents for a judge's fees in Smith's case.
In 1830, Smith founded what became known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ten years after he claimed to have seen a vision of God and Jesus while praying in the woods near his home in Palmyra in western New York.
Smith was killed in 1844 by an anti-Mormon mob in Illinois.
| Joseph Smith - Chenango County Historian Dale Storms - Answer To Giving Joseph Smith Court Records To The Mormon Church |
Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005, at 08:03 AM
Original Author(s): Jeff Wood
Topic: JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1 -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| From: Jeff Wood Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:11 AM |
Subject: Comments or Questions from Web Site
Could you please tell me why your Chenango County historian,
Dale Storms, handed over a piece of New York state history in the form
of the original trial documents of Joseph Smith's trials to the Mormon
I assure you that these papers will be buried deeply within the granite
caves of Utah never to surface again.....as proof of my assertion, see
if the Mormon Church will provide a pdf document image of the originals
for public consumption. I'll let you guess what their answer will
Here's the New York State Historical Association's answer.
From: "NYSHA Library"
To: Jeff Wood
Subject: Joseph Smith - Chenango County Historian Dale Storms
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:23:26 -0400
The New York State Historical Association is a self-supporting, private,
non-profit, educational institution committed to the preservation of New
York State's documentary heritage. It promotes historical research at the
state and local levels with no official connection with the State of New
Since we are a private organization with no state contection we have no
control or say what a local historian does with a collection. Local
historians are appointed by the local government, so if you have concerns
about these documents, you should direct them to the Chenago County Board
of Representatives in Norwich, New York.
JoAnn Van Vranken
Cooperstown, NY 13326
| Please Set The Record Straight. The Original Documents Still Reside In The Chenango County's Possession. |
Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005, at 10:58 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1 -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| An email from Al Oram: |
Please set the record straight. The original documents still reside in
the Chenango County's possession.
From: Historian [mailto:CountyHistorian@CO.CHENANGO.NY.US]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:04 AM
To: Al Oram
Subject: Joseph Smith's arrest audits
The original Joseph Smith documents remain and always will remain in the
custody of Chenango County government. I sent copies to Latter Day
in Salt Lake City, Utah and as far as I can determine their spokeswoman
she was glad they were returned to their "proper place" - meaning
County, New York. Some AP reporter apparently thought she meant to
Day Saints and changed the original story. I was shocked and could not
correct that article. It would be over my dead body if these documents
left the County. Please let our fellow historians everywhere know I
never send these papers away. Presently anyone wishing to view the
originals must be with me, our County Auditor, and a Sheriff's Deputy.
one may touch them, but because of Freedom of Information we
have to let qualified parties see the originals. All others use copies.
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