THE MORMON CURTAIN
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MORMON DOCTRINE
Total Articles:
35
This is a general holding area for articles that do not yet have an assigned Topic. These articles generally surround Mormon Doctrine such as the Plan Of Salvation, the Man/God Theory and others.
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I am making top ten lists as discussion starters for my TBM friends and relatives. This one is going to be a tough one to narrow down to ten. I would appreciate your ideas and then I'll have to make some decisions which are added and which are eliminated. You would be surprised how many TBMs still hold on to these teachings as absolutely true.
When finished, it would be fun to make this a "true/false" quiz and give it to TBMs.
Top Ten Modern* LDS Teachings That Are No Longer "Emphasiz+ed."
*Within the last 50 years.
- Polygamy will be commonly practiced in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.
- Our race and nationality assignment on this earth was based upon our valiancy in the pre-existence.
- The "church of the devil" are all churches except the LDS church.
- Blacks were the least valiant in the pre-existence and, therefore, are the most inferior race with the lowest opportunities on this earth.
- It is against God's will to practice birth control.
- Righteous saints tend to be wealthy because God blesses them with prosperity.
- In the near future, the U.S. Government will collapse and the LDS church will be instrumental in saving it.
- In the near future, many LDS saints will be called to go to Missouri to build a large city called the "New Jerusalem."
- Some sins can only be atoned for by the taking of the perpetrator's own life.
- Dinosaur bones and other ancient fossils came from materials in space that were used in the construction of this planet.
- The prophet and apostles regularly meet in person with Jesus Christ in the temple.
- Natural disasters are often purposely caused by God as punishment for lack of obedience.
- Native American skin will become lighter when they turn to the gospel and are obedient to the commandments.
- Satan is in control of the water which makes it dangerous for missionaries and other saints to swim and recreate in or on water.
- God was once a man, and men can eventually become Gods.
| From http://lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15...
"Misstatement: “Mormons, for example, oppose abortion, but find some embryonic stem cell research morally acceptable. According to Mormon belief, life does not begin until a human embryo attaches to the mother's uterus after about 14 days. That is the moment, according to Mormon theology, at which the human spirit joined with human flesh and a resulting full human being is created.”
Fact: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no official position on the moment that human life begins. Further, the Church has not taken a position on the issue of embryonic stem-cell research. "
This Mistakes in the News item would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. The issue of when life begins has enormous implications for decision-making in all kinds of matters. You would think the prophets would want to make it clear where Mormonism stands on the beginning of life whether they believe it begins at conception or not. To say "I don't know" may be politically safe, but it doesn't seem very prophetic. And it seems to me it leaves Mormons especially confused on the issue of whether or not they should support abortion rights. They seem to say, "You might be killing someone, but then again it's possible you're not killing anything." When you look at all of the churches that have made up their mind one way or another on this issue, you'd think the LDS prophets could at least take a stand one way or the other.
| One of the things that has really puzzled me lately about Mormonism are the requirements for exaltation and becoming a God.
Most of us are familiar with Hinckley's response to Don Lattin when asked "There are some significant differences in your beliefs [and other Christian churches]. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?"
Richard Packham has compiled Hinckley's answer (with many other instances of what appears to be his common answer of "I don't know") at http://home.teleport.com/~packham/gbh-god.htm
Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs [and other Christian churches]. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?
Hinckley: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about.
Q: So you're saying the church is still struggling to understand this?
Hinckley: Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection. ...that's one thing that's different. Modern revelation. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, we believe he has yet to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
So here Hinckley at least asserts that man may become like God. So what are the requirements for becoming like God?
In the FARMS publication The Doctrine of Exaltation, or Becoming a God by Jordan Vajda in the section titled The Grand Council it states:
"God presented to his children, gathered together with him and his eternal companion, a plan of salvation for their consideration. This plan was to be the means by which God's spirit children could continue their growth and development and thus attain exaltation. A world would be created–this earth–where they would be born of mortal, human parents and receive a body of flesh and bones. A veil of forgetfulness would come over them and they would not remember their premortal lives with their Heavenly Parents. All this would occur so that their obedience could be tested while in mortality. Mortal life would be a probationary state where through free choices and character development they could demonstrate their worthiness to return to the presence of their Heavenly Parents and continue their progression–a progression which has as its goal exaltation, becoming exalted personages like their Heavenly Parents."
Dallin Oaks has also explained the need for a body by saying:
"Our understanding of life begins with a council in heaven. There the spirit children of God were taught his eternal plan for their destiny. We had progressed as far as we could without a physical body and an experience in mortality. To realize a fulness of joy, we had to prove our willingness to keep the commandments of God in a circumstance where we had no memory of what preceded our mortal birth."
All of us who grew up in the LDS church were taught innumerable times in Primary and Sunday School that one of the primary requirements of the Plan of Salvation was to come to earth to obtain a mortal body. Without that experience we would not be able to be tested and therefore prove to God and ourselves that we were worthy to become Gods ourselves.
So the question I've been puzzling on, and I've not yet found a good Mormon explanation for (or found so much as an attempt) is:
How did the Holy Ghost become a God without obtaining a mortal body?
I thought that God was "the same yesterday, today and forever", but in this case it seems that the Holy Ghost received an "Advance to Godhead" card without all the hassle of a mortal experience.
How can you claim that a requirement for Godhead is a mortal body and experience - including the need for Baptism, Gift of the Holy Ghost, the Priesthood for men, temple endowments and celestial marriage - when a member of the Godhead apparently did not need to follow these steps?
It seems that in reforming Christianity, Joseph, Oliver and Sidney did not reform the Trinity well enough.
| Look at the list below and ask yourself, would any rational man join a church that..
...women held all priesthood leadership positions, including Prophet, Apostles, Stake Presidents and Bishops etc...
...God was a woman and any mention of Father in Heaven was forbidden
...only women were allowed to speak for God
...under no circumstance could a man hold a position of authority over a woman
...only women could perform church ordinances - i.e. pass the sacrament, perform baptisms or bless their own children
...in the temple women covenanted to obey Mother in Heaven but the men covenanted to obey their wives
...the fundamental narrative upon which the entire religion were based had a man obeying Satan to eat the forbidden fruit first, which would explain why men are so subservient to women
...men were told time and again in General Conference from their all-female leaders that their main purpose was to be submissive to their wives
...at age 12 the girls got the priesthood with subsequent advancement during the teen years. But the boys got nothing but a "Manhood Medallion"
...the only men's group in the church called the "Relief Society" was really run by the women apostles who made all the real decisions, controlled the budget and provided all the curriculum
...the church had a history of treating men like mindless property. Its founding leaders taught that God commanded that one woman should have plural husbands that lived by themselves and had to share the one wife with other men.
...the church founder (a woman) had over 30 secret husbands. Some of them were pre-pubescent boys she emotionally blackmailed into secret sex. Some were happily-married men who she told had to marry her in order to save their families.
...the church's scriptures (DandC 132) contained a revelation by the church founder (a woman) that has Heavenly Mother saying she gives young virgin men to the founder and her husband must accept it or suffer destruction and eternal damnation
...the Book of Mormon had only four pathetic references to men but the whole rest of this "divinely inspired" book was about women
...women frequently gave men priesthood blessings of counsel, pretending to speak in the name of Heavenly Mother commanding them to obey their wives and "be faithful"
...the most precious thing a man could give his wife were his virginity/virtue
...men who had lost their virginity before marriage were called "used cars"
...single men were told that they could only be exalted if their wives called upon them for exaltation
...in the next life a woman could have as many husbands as she wanted while the husband could only have one wife
...the men were expected to take mini classes on how to change toilet flappers, sharpen lawn mower blades, or fix fences while the women met to discuss leadership doctrine
...a man who had a huge business empire and a great education was only allowed to be in charge of other men or children...never women...in church
..men wondered what their wife's temple names might be
Would any man in his right mind join such a church?
http://www.i4m.com/think/
| Mormonism is, if not entirely unique, certainly unusual in not having a systematic theology (unless you count the Articles of Faith, a sort of throwaway list Joseph Smith wrote). There are no creeds, no statements of faith. When asked, Mormons will always say that authoritative doctrine is to be found only in the standard works.
During Joseph Smith's life, he said several times that he was finished revealing things, only to have more doctrinal "innovations" come out from time to time. But even the canonized revelations have been assembled ad hoc, sometimes many years after the fact. For example, the third-person account of Joseph and Sidney Rigdon's seeing God turns into a first-person revelation. Excerpts from a letter expressing Joseph Smith's feelings as hypothetical answers from God are presented as sections 121 and 122.
So, there's not really any standard for measuring what the church teaches other than saying "that's not what the church teaches currently." Essentially, without a formal doctrinal statement, church doctrine is always fluid and changing, and previous prophets' statements (even those used in the temple ceremonies) can be denounced as "deadly heresies."
It's the ultimate "out" for the church. They can do and say whatever they want because tomorrow the past will be "in the past," as GBH put it. It really is a church of the moment. I expect them to use this fluidity to their advantage in the future in disentangling themselves from a historical Book of Mormon.
To nail themselves down to something fixed would be abominable.
| Here they are followed by my analysis assuming that the statement "The Church is true" is a false statement:
* There is no salvation in believing a false doctrine.
* Truth, diamond truth, truth unmixed with error, truth alone leads to salvation.
* What we believe determines what we do.
* No man can be saved in ignorance of God and his laws.
* Man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge of Jesus Christ and the saving truths of his everlasting gospel.
* Gospel doctrines belong to the Lord, not to men.
* Our sole concern in seeking truth should be to learn and believe what the Lord knows and believes.
* We are called upon to reject all heresies and cleave unto all truth.
http://www.zionsbest.com/top25.html
* There is no salvation in believing a false doctrine.
Therefore The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints offers only as much salvation as it contains true doctrines.
It is anyone's guess if one accepts Christianity as being true, which of the LDS doctrines are the true and which are false.
* Truth, diamond truth, truth unmixed with error, truth alone leads to salvation.
Therefore The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints offers no salvation.
* What we believe determines what we do.
Except when a Mormon asks you to read The Book of Mormon based upon their belief that it is true while you believe it isn't true and you do it.
* No man can be saved in ignorance of God and his laws.
Therefore, if the church isn't true then it can't save unless it teaches some knowledge of God and his laws.
That being said, the nature of God becomes a "diamond truth" and only the LDS teach that God has a human body.
Therefore either the LDS Church is the only true church on the planet or it is totally in error. No middle ground here Grant Palmer.
* Man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge of Jesus Christ and the saving truths of his everlasting gospel.
Therefore The LDS Church has little if any saving truth because their knowledge of Jesus Christ in encumbered with Jesus making fantasy trips all around the world, Jesus condoning temple rites that have nothing to do with his life or what anyone knows about him, and Jesus appearing to a young boy (Smith) who couldn't decide if it was just Jesus, and angel or God and Jesus.
* Gospel doctrines belong to the Lord, not to men.
Yet, in the history of the LDS Church these doctrines have changed thuis proving they belong to men because with regards to polygamy, men and men's societies determine when this doctrine is practiced.
* Our sole concern in seeking truth should be to learn and believe what the Lord knows and believes.
Except through people claiming to be his prophets in the LDS Church and claiming to know what the Lord believes, there is dissenting opinions and changing doctrines and policies on what the Lord knows and believes.
* We are called upon to reject all heresies and cleave unto all truth.
Except when they contradict the current LDS leadership's changing opinions on what is and what isn't a heresy.
| Quote Of The Day: Meridian Magazine's John P. Pratt On The Lord "Hiding" The Ten Tribes
Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006, at 08:22 AM
Original Author(s): Silence Dogood
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | "If someone is just lost, then rescue crews can search the area, and be somewhat confident that a thorough search should find him. But if a person is hiding, then locating him will be much more difficult. The modern satellite system with high resolution anywhere on earth has not yet located Osama bin Laden. If the Lord is hiding someone, who would be so bold as to say that a certain location is ruled out as the hiding place because it has been searched? When the Lord wanted to hide the entire Western Hemisphere from the rest of the world, no one could sail across the ocean to find it (2 Nephi 1:8). When the Lord wanted to hide himself, he could walk unnoticed through a crowd of people to whom he was just preaching, who wanted to kill him (Luke 4:30, John 8:59). If he can do that as part of his daily routine, surely he can hide whatever he wants from whomever he pleases. Let us remember that we are talking about God, who created the heavens and the earth and all things which in them are, as well as our eyes and minds.
"The scriptures clearly teach that Israelites will someday return from the north countries. The Lord has revealed that they will do so on a highway that is cast up in the great deep. If that is interpreted literally, science has no explanation of where they might be located, much less for the sudden appearance of a land bridge across a deep ocean. Therefore, if the prophecy in DandC 133 of their return as a group along a highway is fulfilled literally, it would be a miracle. Such an event could cause many more to believe in the restoration, and others to vow to fight against it more vehemently. Time will tell just how literally the Lord meant this prophecy of a highway to be interpreted, but in any case it should be a marvelous event to witness."
John P. Pratt, "A Volcanic Highway for the Lost Tribes?", Meridian Magazine, http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_r....
| I've often wondered where Smith got his descriptions of the afterlife as first described in Section 76 of the DandC.
In D. Michael Quinn's excellent book "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," he gives a very fascinating source of Smith's "revelations." Quinn offers an exhaustive examination of the sources for the 1832 DandC Section 76 "Vision" of the "three degrees of glory."
In fact, Smith's descripton of the "Celestial Kingdom" was not only a copy from earlier written works, but also VERY controversial to the Latter-Day Saints.
The diaries of Orson Pratt and John Murdock from the 1830's record their efforts to reassure members who questioned the 1832 vision of heaven. The two men described countless excommunications of Mormons, including branch presidents, who denounced "the degress of glory" as a "satanic revelation." Even Brigham Young had a hard time with it at first and described it as "a trial to many."
Why were Mormons choking on this idea of three heavens?
Quinn explains that it's because members correctly recognized it as coming from the occult. The only other sources of separate degrees in heaven came from occult writers during and before Smith's time.
For example, in 1784 a man by the name of Emanuel Swedenborg wrote a book about his visions of the afterlife. Swedenborg insisted: "There are three heavens," described as "entirely distinct from each other." He called the highest heaven "the Celestial Kingdom," and stated that the inhabitants of the three heavens corresponded to the "sun, moon and stars."
By Joseph Smith's own statements, he was familiar with Swedenborg's writtings. Smith told a convert by the name of Edward Hunter that "Emanuel Swedenborg had a view of the world to come, but for daily food he perished." In other words, Smith liked Swedenborg's concepts of the afterlife, but criticized him for not profiting from them.
I was so fascinated by the connection that Quinn documented, that I bought a copy of Swedenborg's book myself from Amazon.com. It's called "Heaven and Hell and Its Wonders" and was written way before Joseph Smith. Yet it describes the three Mormon degrees of glory to the tee, along with many other concepts including "the veil," "sprit prison," "celestial marriage," and more.
Not only does Quinn make a strong case that Smith knew all about Swedenborg's ideas, but he also shows that his book "Heaven and Hell and Its Wonders" was a book in Smith's hometown library since 1817. Quinn also writes that "Nine miles from Smith's farm, in 1826 the Canandaigua newspaper also advertised Swedenborg's book for sale. The bookstore offered Swedenborg's publications for as little as 37 cents."
If you ever want to know details about the Mormon afterlife, read Swedenborg's book. Smith liberally plagarized from it to come up with his DandC "visions" of the celestial, telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. But Swedenborg's works are definately the originals.
| Lorenzo Snow (Prophet o' Gawd):
"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."
Gordy Hinckley (Prophet o' Gawd):
"I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it."
Vinny Barbarino (potential convert):
"Ohhh, my head...I'm so confuused! Do living prophets always trump dead prophets? And if a living prophet says somethin' that contradicts a dead prophet, does that mean that the dead prophet was wrong when he was a living prophet? I'm soooo confuuused!"
Lard Gawd Ahmighty (Joe Smith's Right-Hand Man):
"Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion." (DandC 132:8)
So there it is. Don't you want to enjoy membership in a Church led by a living prophet who can speak fer the Lard with a clear voice to pronounce doctrine and lead and guide us in these latter days? (snicker, snicker...)
| The Mormon Conundrum Of Adam As God The Father And The Other Gods Of Creation
Tuesday, Nov 7, 2006, at 08:06 AM
Original Author(s): Swedeboy
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | During my mission for the cult, a good companion of mine handed me a copy of the Adam God doctrine from the Journal of Discourses and asked me, “What do you think of this?” Needless to say it changed my Mormon world view, and it was the real beginning of the end for me and my devotion to Mormonism.
I spent three days trying to wrap my mind around old Brigham’s pronouncements and had myself partially convinced that it could still fit it in with my Mormon definition of deity. However, I needed more insight from someone “wiser” than myself, so I went to visit my mission president, a former institute director at Texas AandM.
I presented him with my new found doctrinal dilemma, and his words to me were as follows, “Well Elder Swedeboy, the Adam God doctrine is a theory just like Noah’s’ flood.” I could not believe my ears, and as he began to baffle me with his bullshit, I began to believe again, almost. After about thirty minutes of his spiritual reassurance that all is well, I said my goodbyes and left.
After returning home, marriage, kids and everything else, the question of Adam as God continued to surface and rear its doctrinally confusing head, begging to be resolved. I tried over the years to put my concerns to rest by reading arguments from apologist after apologist, and of course what Bruce had to say about it in his book, Mormon Doctrine, and as they baffled me with their bullshit, I began to believe again, almost.
Thank God this thorn was lodged into my mind, and as it festered and machetied its way through my Mormon programming. It gave me pause to think over the years, and continue on my quest to find the truth.
In my post Mormon studies of all things Mormon, I came across an excellent explanation of this Mormon doctrinal conundrum from H. Michael Marquardt.
In this post you will further understand why this is an important issue to understand from Mormonism’s past. It is a clear doctrinal shift which clearly shows the lack of inspiration and doctrinal clarity which is so prevalent in the Mormon church.
At the heart of the matter is this:
Elohim = Father of Yahovah (Grandpa God, not God the Father as presently taught, had Physical Body at the creation)
Yahovah = Son of Elohim and Father of Michael/Adam (Not Jesus Christ as presently taught, had Physical Body at the creation)
Michael = Grandson of Elohim = Adam = God the Father = Father of Jesus Christ (had Physical Body at the creation)
not this as presently taught in relation to the creation story and Godhead in the Mormon church and temple endowment:
Father = Elohim = God the Father = physical personage
Son = Jehovah = Jesus Christ = spirit personage at time of creation
Michael/Adam = spirit personage at time of creation
Holy Ghost = spirit personage
I hope you will enjoy discovering more about this doctrinal epiphany as I have. -Swedeboy
Outline Relating to the LDS Temple Endowment and the Teachings of Brigham Young
Creations Gods:
On 8-9 March 1842 Joseph Smith worked on his Book of Abraham, "and they organized and formed, (that is, the Gods,) the heavens and the earth" (Times and Seasons 3 [15 March 1842]:720, words rearranged in Abraham 4:1). Who or how many Gods were involved is not known for sure. In the Nauvoo temple endowment as organized by Brigham Young the Gods were identified as three in number, that is, Eloheem [Elohim], Jehovah [also spelled Yahovah] and Michael. Michael had been previously identified by Joseph Smith as "Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days" (LDS DandC 27:11, added to early text in 1835).
Characters in the Nauvoo Temple
Nauvoo Temple Organization: 10-13 December 1845:
H. C. Kimball presides as Eloheem,
Orson Hyde as Jehovah and
George A. Smith as Michael
(Heber C. Kimball Journal kept by William Clayton, entry of 10 Dec. 1845, LDS archives)
The following persons officiating
Orson Hyde as Eloheem
Orson Spencer as Jehovah
George A Smith as Michael
later that day -
Heber C. Kimball acting as Eloheem
George A. Smith as Jehovah
Orson Hyde as Michael
(Heber C. Kimball Journal, entry of 11 Dec. 1845)
Pres[ident] Young acting as Eloheem
P.P. Pratt as Jehovah
Orson Hyde as Michael
"During the whole of the three days already spent in the endowment, President Brigham Young presided and dictated the ordinances and also took an active part in nearly every instance except when entirely overcome by fatigue through his constant labors to forward the work." (Ibid., 12 Dec. 1845)
"Last evening an arrangement was made establishing better order in conducting the endowment. Under this order it is the providence of Eloheem, Jehovah and Michael to create the world . . ." (Ibid., entry of 13 Dec. 1845).
President Brigham Young's Teaching
Here we have the name/titles of the three creation Gods. Except for Michael the identities of Eloheem and Jehovah are not spelled out. Brigham Young mentioned, "It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael . . ." (Journal of Discourses 1:51, 9 April 1852).
In this same discourse (as published) President Brigham Young said:
When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. . . . the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. . . . When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal" (Journal of Discourses 1:50, emphasis in original).
What we have are three creation Gods, Eloheim, Yahovah [spelled that way in the Endowment House records] and Michael. They are not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) but a different trinity. They are like a LDS priesthood presidency of three (Elder's Quorum, High Priest Quorum, First Presidency, Mission Presidency, Temple Presidency). But there are now two trinities, the regular Father, Son and Holy Ghost and the creation Gods Eloheim, Yahovah (Jehovah) and Michael. Brigham Young taught that in order to create a world a man would have received his exaltation as a God. At a Special Conference held on 28 August 1852 he explained it as an important key to understanding:
After men have got their exaltations and their crowns--have become Gods, even the sons of God--are made Kings of kings and Lord of lords, they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit; and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the organization of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you" (Journal of Discourses 6:275).
Some individual journals mention the teachings of Brigham Young about Adam/Michael but not all church members believed in Adam being God or understood what he was talking about. Apostle Orson Pratt opposed the doctrine from 1852-1868. It is evident that if the interpretation of the creation Gods was taught in the Nauvoo Temple like Brigham Young was explaining then Pratt probably would have accepted it. But it appears to have first been publicly taught in April 1852.
At the church conference held on 8 October 1854 Brigham Young preached a powerful discourse that was not published until the 1970s. Warren Foote recorded, "8th We went to conference again. President B. Young delivered an interesting discourse concerning Adam's being the father of our spirits as well as bodies" (Warren Foote Journal, 8 Oct. 1854, original in LDS archives, typed copy).
Joseph Lee Robinson also recorded what Brigham Young taught:
Oct. 6th. Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that received tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, or Eternal Father" (Joseph Lee Robinson Journal, 6-8 Oct. 1854, LDS archives, typed copy).
This "Discourse by Pres. Brigham Young Oct 8th 1854" (in LDS archives) has been published in an edited version. A copy is in The Essential Brigham Young (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1992), 86-103. A few quotes from the discourse:
But let us turn our attention to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Father of our spirits (93).
The God and Father [of] our Lord Jesus Christ is the Father of our spirits (94).
I tell you more, Adam is the Father of our spirits. He lived upon an earth; he did abide his creation, and did honor to his calling and Priesthood; and obeyed his Master or Lord, and probably many of his wives did the same, and they lived, and died upon an earth, and then were resurrected again to Immortality and Eternal Life (96).
Our spirits and the spirits of all the human family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve (97).
Adam planted the Garden of Eden, and he with his wife Eve partook of the fruit of this Earth, until their systems were charged with the nature of Earth, and then they could beget bodies, for their spiritual children (98)
I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bear your spirit, you will see Mother Eve (99).
At the School of the Prophets in June 1871 President Brigham Young taught, "Elohim, Yahova and Michael, were father, Son and grandson. They made this Earth and Michael became Adam" (Joseph F. Smith Journal, 17 June 1871, LDS archives). So this would mean:
Elohim = Father of Yahovah
Yahovah = Son of Elohim
Michael = Grandson of Elohim = Adam = God the Father
Jesus would be the only begotten son of Michael/Adam. This may explain the words of President Young made in 1862:
The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather . . ." (Journal of Discourses 9:148, 12 Jan. 1862).
Brigham Young died in August 1877. At the October 1880 conference the Pearl of Great Price was accepted as the fourth standard work of the church. In various publications on gospel topics many writers emphasized that Adam and Eve were spirits before earth life. They used the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price (portion dictated in 1830) as their basis. This was more in line with Orson Pratt's position. There were church members who believed what President Young taught and others who had views based upon LDS scriptures. James E. Talmage wrote his book Articles of Faith which was published by the church.
Finally in June 1916 Talmage wrote the official statement on The Father and the Son which was accepted by the First Presidency and the Twelve as the position of the church on the Godhead. In essence Adam/Michael as God, the Father of our spirits and Father of Jesus Christ as taught by President Brigham Young was replaced by Elohim as God and Father. This statement has the following relating to Elohim:
The purport of these scriptures is to the effect that God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title "Elohim," is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race.
Prior to 1916 the interpretation of who the creation Gods were (as described by President Young) gradually changed. There was confusion over this issue for many years. It appears that during the Presidency of Joseph F. Smith the Michael in the temple endowment ceremony changed from being an exalted God who helped create the world to being a spirit personage "God." Elohim became God with Jesus Christ becoming the Jehovah creation God.
So part of Brigham Young's teaching expressed in his April 1852 discourse to priesthood members is rejected and part is accepted. At the time when President Young preached he was considered inspired. The conference minutes stated that the Holy Ghost rested upon Brigham Young at the time.
Current LDS Godhead:
Father = Elohim = God the Father
Son = Jehovah = Jesus Christ
Holy Ghost = spirit personage
Those who go through the endowment ceremony are taught that three Gods planned and organized the world and all things on it. Two of these Gods, that is, Jehovah and Michael were organizers under the direction of the third, Elohim. When the Gods had pronounced the world good, Michael, now designated as Adam, with Eve, was to commence the procreation of the children of men. Adam was given dominion over all the earth.
In the endowment ceremony men must follow Adam, and women follow Eve through all the priesthood ordinances if they are to become Gods. They are promised, if they are faithful, that they can become as Adam and Eve and create their own worlds and beget their own spiritual children to inhabit them. This is what Brigham Young was teaching. Currently in the church it is taught, after the change in the creation Gods, not to believe that the above applies to Adam. Church leaders teach that men can become Gods by following Adam but we are not to believe that Adam attained to that position.
| This Has To Be The Most Egregious False Teaching In Mormonism. Agency?
Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006, at 06:57 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | Words in quotes are from "GOSPEL PRINCIPLES", Chapter 4, a teaching manual for a Sunday School class"
Mormonism's doctrine/principle of "AGENCY" is "freedom to choose which in a nut shell means:" freedom to choose between good and evil."
They call it an "eternal principle" that was part of our "pre earth life" which means "we were free agents."
[That is where the concept of "free agency" comes from.]
"There must be opposition in all things." see 2 Nephi 2:11
"When we follow he temptations of Satan we limit our choices."
"God's commandments direct us away from danger and toward eternal life. By choosing wisely, we will gain exaltation, progress eternally, and enjoy perfect happiness. see Nephi 2:27-28"
All scriptural references are from the BOM, Pearl of Great Price, DandC, three from the Bible.
They cover these topics:
freedom of choice, agency in pre-existence, earth life-a test, works judged, opposition is necessary, choosing good and evil, sin is bondage, reward according to works.
Agency in Mormonism is shown by this teaching manual to be predominately defined by Joseph Smith Jr.
This has nothing to do with a dictionary definition.
Main Entry: agency
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 a : the office or function of an agent b : the relationship between a principal and his agent
2 : the capacity, condition, or state of acting or of exerting power : OPERATION
3 : a person or thing through which power is exerted or an end is achieved : INSTRUMENTALITY
4 : an establishment engaged in doing business for another
5 : an administrative division (as of a government)
So, what is Mormonism really talking about: Free will choice? Is that it?
It certainly is not: agency!
| "The Lord Slayeth The Wicked To Bring Forth His Righteous Purposes” Or "How God Justifies The Murder Of An Unconscious (Albeit 'Wicked’) Person"
Monday, Feb 26, 2007, at 07:30 AM
Original Author(s): Xtbm
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | That “scripture” is from 1 Ne. 4:13 supposedly spoken by “the Spirit” to Nephi shortly before Nephi beheaded Laban. Today I read through the account once again and it struck me how twisted this whole story truly is.
We are all intimately familiar with the tale of Nephi and the time he ran headlong into a problem when trying to secure the brass plates in the form of Laban, who wasn’t so eager to hand them over to this stranger. In 1 Ne. 3:13, Laban called Nephi a robber and threatened to kill him – certainly that’s a serious threat. 1 Ne. 3:24-25 lays even more groundwork to justify killing Laban when, on their second attempt to get the plates, Nephi and his brothers brought all their “precious things” to Laban and Laban took everything and “sent his servants to slay us”.
(Not to detract from the point, but – seriously – how much common sense does it take to realize that this second attempt wasn’t going to end well? I can see the conversation now – “Let’s see, Laban already threatened to kill us once, so what if this time we show up at his place completely unarmed and, hey, let’s physically bring all of our worldly possessions with us! Oh yeah, he’ll hand the plates right over…” Brilliant!)
At this point I think it’s safe to say that Laban wasn’t the kind of guy who was out winning any humanitarian awards. He’s obviously painted as someone who was willing to do whatever it took – including murder – to get what he wanted. And thus the stage is set for a great ethical dilemma when Nephi, on his third attempt to secure the brass plates, was “led by the Spirit” to an unconscious, drunk man who just happens to be Laban.
The scenario that plays out gives some incredible insight into the thought process and logical reasoning of the Mormon God. It helps, though, to separate the reasons given by “the Spirit” (which obviously qualifies as direction directly from God) and the reasons Nephi came up with on his own.
After Nephi decided he didn’t want to kill Laban, here are the points of justification that were used to change his mind (all in 1 Ne. chapter 4):
GOD’S JUSTIFICATION (FROM “THE SPIRIT”)
POINT 1: “The Lord delivered him into your hands” (v. 11 and v. 12)
POINT 2: “The Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purpose” (v. 13)
POINT 3: “It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief” (v. 13)
NEPHI’S JUSTIFICATION (FROM NEPHI)
POINT 1: “He sought to take away my own life” (v. 11)
POINT 2: “He would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord” (v. 11)
POINT 3: “He had taken away our property” (v. 11)
POINT 4: Nephi remembers “Insasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments they shall prosper in the land of promise” (v. 14)
POINT 5: “[his seed] could not keep the commandments…save they should have the law” (v. 15)
POINT 6: “The law was engraven upon the plates of brass.” (v. 16)
POINT 7: “The Lord had delivered Laban into my hands… that I might obtain the records” (v. 17)
After this sequence, Nephi “obeyed” and beheaded a completely defenseless (at the time) man with his own sword.
It took on a completely different light when I looked at it from this perspective. “The Spirit” gave three reasons why God wanted Nephi to commit murder and Nephi did the rest of the mental reasoning on his own. Apparently, according to the Mormon Spirit, if the Mormon God delivers someone into your hands who is wicked and who may cause a significant number of people to “dwindle and perish in unbelief”, the cold-blooded murder of this person has the potential to be an acceptable resolution to the problem!
But, to make matters worse, POINT 2 (“The Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purpose”) isn’t an accurate statement at all! After all, if the Lord was to be the one “slaying” Laban he certainly had a full range of options at his disposal: alcohol poisoning, chocking on his own vomit, heart attack, some sort of chronic illness, stroke, etc. But it’s not the Lord doing the slaying here, it’s a person! So, the more accurate restatement of POINT 2 to reflect what happened in this story would be “The Lord uses ‘the Spirit’ to guide people to slay the wicked to bring forth his righteous purpose.” And that has a completely different and twisted feel to it!
This is the Mormon God that surfaced in my studies of early Church history – the God who sends angels with drawn swords to supposedly force polygamy on Joseph Smith and who allows his prophet to marry other men’s wives. This is the God that I ultimately rejected.
I suppose the strangest part is that I used to accept the story of Nephi as one of courage and faith, but it isn’t until I rejected Mormonism that I came to see it in a dark and twisted light. If God does indeed exist, would He justify murder under certain conditions? I can’t even begin to try and answer that question, but I can say that I reject the God who convinces one man to murder another defenseless man for the sake of securing some plates with the law of Moses – especially when the primary plan for that God is supposed to be to reveal truth through living prophets!
| "At its worst, heaven can be an 'effective tool for manipulation,' says Paul Knitter, emeritus professor of theology at Xavier University in Cincinnati. 'If you can get people to believe in a certain heaven, you can get them to do anything.' David Koresh told his followers in Waco that if they died with him, they would go directly to heaven."
- Why We Need Heaven, Newsweek, Aug. 12, 2002
The Mormon heaven works equally well as a motivator. But where did Smith get his descriptions of the Celestial Kingdom?
In D. Michael Quinn's excellent book "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," he gives a fascinating source of Smith's "revelations" on the afterlife. Quinn offers an exhaustive examination of the sources for the 1832 DandC Section 76 "Vision" of the "three degrees of glory."
In fact, Smith's description of the "Celestial Kingdom" was not only a copy from earlier written works, but also very controversial to the Latter-Day Saints.
The diaries of Orson Pratt and John Murdock from the 1830's record their efforts to reassure members who questioned the 1832 vision of heaven. The two men described countless excommunications of Mormons, including branch presidents, who denounced "the degrees of glory" as a "satanic revelation." Even Brigham Young had a hard time with it at first and described it as "a trial to many."
Why were faithful Mormons choking on this idea of three heavens?
Quinn explains that it's because members correctly recognized it as coming from the occult. The only other sources of separate degrees in heaven came from occult writers of Smith's time.
For example, in 1758 a man by the name of Emanuel Swedenborg wrote a book about his visions of the afterlife. Swedenborg insisted: "There are three heavens," described as "entirely distinct from each other." He called the highest heaven "the Celestial Kingdom," and stated that the inhabitants of the three heavens corresponded to the "sun, moon and stars."
By Joseph Smith's own statements, he was familiar with Swedenborg's writings. Smith told a convert by the name of Edward Hunter that "Emanuel Swedenborg had a view of the world to come, but for daily food he perished."
I was so fascinated by the connection that Quinn documented, that I bought a copy of Swedenborg's book myself from Amazon.com. It's called "Heaven and Its Wonders and Hell and was written way before Joseph Smith. Yet it describes the three Mormon degrees of glory quite well.
Not only does Quinn make a strong case that Smith knew all about Swedenborg's ideas, but he also shows that his book "Heaven and Hell and Its Wonders" was a book in Smith's hometown library since 1817. Quinn also writes that "Nine miles from Smith's farm, in 1826 the Canandaigua newspaper also advertised Swedenborg's book for sale. The bookstore offered Swedenborg's publications for as little as 37 cents."
If you want to see the detailed ideas behind the Mormon afterlife, read Swedenborg's book. Smith liberally plagiarized from it to come up with his DandC "visions" of the celestial, telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. But Swedenborg's works are definitely the originals.
In fact, a faithful Mormon and scholar Craig Miller has also written on this subject in a paper titled "Did Swedenborg Influence Mormon Doctrine?." Miller lists 19 unique similarities between Swendenborg's fictional "Celestial Kingdom" and the one in Mormonism.
See for yourself:
http://craigwmiller.tripod.com/intere...
You can also read some of Swedenborg's books online. Here is the book "Heaven and Its Wonders and Hell" From Things Heard and Seen:
http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh0...
It may be true that "If you can get people to believe in a certain heaven, you can get them to do anything." But no matter how much conviction we have, it doesn't turn make-believe into reality.
| A Husband Calling His Wife Forth From The Grave - Where Is It In Mormon Doctrine?
Monday, May 21, 2007, at 08:13 AM
Original Author(s): Sierra
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | I'm asking because my TBM hubby doesn't believe it. I'm a nevermo, but brought it to his attention when he started rhapsodizing about how wonderful it would be to be married for eternity. I said, yeah...well...if you got pissed at me, you wouldn't call me forth from the grave and then where would I be? I said it in a joking manner, but he said he never heard of the "doctrine".
Now...I don't know if it's in the JoD, or elsewhere...but would like to find it. If it was spoken by a "profit", all the better. We're having discussions about when a "profit" doesn't speak as a "profit" and as a man...and how does an ordinarily human know the difference.
Yup, you can find it in the “Journal Of Discourses”. I'm not sure where, and I don't want to waste time sifting through that crap again (sorry, but check 15-20). It's one of those controversial doctrines that has been suppressed as "not faith promoting."
I am Ex-Mormon 10 months now and have a TBM hubby. He didn't believe it was doctrine either, but I found it, showed it to him and then he didn't even seem to be bothered by it.
It didn't matter to him until I told him how it made me feel. It's not the fact that he would be the one raising me from the grave that is so offensive, but how it puts limitations on my personal relationship with God and the power of the atonement. I just flipped an old missionary trick on him and "bore my testimony" about my personal experiences, feelings and soul searched understanding / interpretation of the doctrine. That didn't convince him either, but at least now he respects my decision to leave and can't argue that it was genuine.
The confusing thing is that even though he accepts these “grave raising” things as doctrine, it doesn't give him hope that he can actually raise me from the grave and "save" our family. My heart breaks for him.
LDS Apostle Erastus Snow preached the following on Sunday, Oct. 4, 1857:
Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands?... Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? "What!-my husband to be my lord?" I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never got into the celestial kingdom [during the temple ceremony] without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291)
| Why Were The "Lectures On Faith" Removed From The Mormon Doctrinal Cannon?
Thursday, Jul 5, 2007, at 06:55 AM
Original Author(s): Grant Solomon
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | Does anybody remember the “Lectures on Faith?”
This was the central theological treatise, or manual of the church; a clear and precise description of all theological beliefs of the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” as it was called at that particular time. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon worked very hard on compiling this piece of work that they might be able to teach all who would be interested the precise tenants of the church. It would also be the text and basis for the “School of the Prophets,” a forum from which Joseph and Sidney could further elaborate the main theological fixtures of the church.
Theses lectures, 7 of them, to be precise, were also to serve as the introduction to the Doctrine and Covenants in explaining the theological understandings of the church.
Were they, the “lectures on faith.” considered doctrine of and for the church? Indeed, as is evidenced by their premier placement in the church’s doctrinal cannon of revelation. As quoted from the preface letter to the volume, Joseph writes, “that it contains in short, the leading items of the religion which we have professed to believe…The first part of the book will be found to contain a series of Lectures as delivered before a Theological class in this place, and in consequence of their embracing the important doctrine of salvation.” Hence, according to the words of the prophet, these were the doctrines of salvation.
Were these lectures revered as “given by inspiration,” unto the prophet? By all means, yes, as is evidenced in the very words of Joseph and the First Presidency of the Church–“There may be an aversion in the minds of some against receiving any thing purporting to be articles of religious faith, in consequence of there being so many now extant; but if men believe a system, and profess that it was given by inspiration, certainly, the more intelligibly they can present it, the better. It does not make a principle untrue to print it, neither does it make it true not to print it.”
As was written above, these Lectures on Faith were the central chief instructional manual unto the current and future leaders of the Church. Of course, all Mormons are acutely aware, “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)”
Hence, the Lord would not permit Joseph to include false doctrine or teachings in His doctrinal cannon of the teachings essential unto salvation. Nor would the Lord permit the prophet to instruct false teachings or doctrine to the future leasers of the church, namely the “school of prophets.”
Even Bruce R. McConkie is noted as regarding the “lectures on faith” in this manner, “In my judgment, it is the most comprehensive, inspired utterance that now exists in the English language - that exists in one place defining, interpreting, expounding, announcing, and testifying what kind of being God is. It was written by the power of the Holy Ghost, by the spirit of inspiration. It is, in effect, eternal scripture; it is true.”
With all of this being said and understood, why did the church have them removed in 1921???? They were a part of the inspirational, doctrinal, instructional cannon for approximately 86 years and then removed. Why???
Well, as to why they were removed, all must determine their own conclusion and reach that verdict for themselves, but as for me and my house, I have a pretty darn good idea why they were removed–LECTURE 5!!!
As Joseph’s doctinal ideas began to evolve so did his theology. It can be most easliy and readily demonstrated that Joseph’s thoelogical beliefs were the result of an ever modifying evolution; and had he lived longer, I’m positive that his theology would have evolved even further. It is evident from Joseph’s early treatments i.e., the first rendition of “the first vision” and The Book of Mormon, that he fully embraced the mainstream belief in a Christian god that was essentailly one being, one substance, one person; in other words that Jesus was it, the full embodiment of the godhead or trinity–Jesus was God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Ghost; and beside Him, there was no other.
As time would progress so would Joseph’s theological movements, particularily surrounding the Godhead. The Godhead would eventually involve two distinct individuals, namely God the father and Jesus his son. Yet, Joseph would teach that God the father was only as personage of Spirit. Also Joseph would teach that The Holy Ghost was nothing more than the combined mental essence of the father and the son, and he was not his own separate entity with substance divided or separte from that of the father and the son.
Ladies and Gentlement of the jury, I present to you exhibit A–LECTURE 5!
“2 There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things--by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space--They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;--he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh--and descendedin suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father-possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, andare one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all--the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father--possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father--a Mediator for man--being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.
3 From the foregoing account of the Godhead, which is given in his revelations, the Saints have a sure foundation laid for the exercise of faith unto life and salvation, through the atonement and mediation of Jesus Christ, by whose blood they have a forgiveness of sins, and also, a sure reward laid up for them in heaven, even that of partaking of the fulness of the Father and the Son, through the Spirit. As the Son partakes of the fulness of the Father through the Spirit, so the saints are, by the same Spirit, to be partakers of the same fulness, to enjoy the same glory; for as the Father and the Son are one, so in like manner the saints are to be one in them, through the love of the Father, the mediation of Jesus Christ, and the gift of the Holy Spirit; they are to be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.”
In the question and answer section Joseph and Sidney more fully elaborate the nature of the Holy Ghost and further deepen their theology that the Holy Ghost was nothing more than the mental combination of the father and the son
“Q. Do the Father and the Son possess the same mind?
A. They do. John 5: 30. I (Christ) can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me. John 6:38. For I (Christ) came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 10: 30. I (Christ) and my Father are one.
Q. What is this mind?
A. The Holy Spirit. John 15:26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me. (Christ.) Gal. 4: 6. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts.”
Of course, Joseph’s beliefs and theologies would undergo numerous revisions, and this is simply one clear, precise, distinct illustration of that on-going theological evolution.
This was clearly and conspicuously taught in the church from its own cannon of doctrine from 1835 until 1921–almost a full and complete century.
It is most obvious why it had to be removed.
The church’s theological teachings and policies have also gone through countless revisions and will continue to do so; so sit back and enjoy the ride.
Mormonism–a supposition of convenience.
| In Utah it has been the custom with the Priesthood to make eunuchs of such men as were obnoxious to the leaders. This was
done for a double purpose: first, it gave a perfect revenge, and next, it left the poor victim a living example to others of the
dangers of disobeying counsel and not living as ordered by the Priesthood.
"In Nauvoo it was the orders from Joseph Smith and his apostles to beat, wound and castrate all Gentiles that the police could
take in the act of entering or leaving a Mormon household under circumstances that led to the belief that they had been there for
immoral purposes.... In Utah it was the favorite revenge of old, worn-out members of the Priesthood, who wanted young
women sealed to them, and found that the girl preferred some handsome young man. The old priests generally got the girls, and
many a young man was unsexed for refusing to give up his sweetheart at the request of an old and failing, but still sensual apostle or member of the Priesthood. As an illustration... Warren Snow was Bishop of the Church at Manti, San Pete County, Utah.
He had several wives, but there was a fair, buxom young woman in the town that Snow wanted for a wife.... She thanked him
for the honor offered, but told him she was then engaged to a young man, a member of the Church, and consequently could not
marry the old priest.... He told her it was the will of God that she should marry him, and she must do so; that the young man
could be got rid of, sent on a mission or dealt with in some way... that, in fact, a promise made to the young man was not
binding, when she was informed that it was contrary to the wishes of the authorities.
"The girl continued obstinate.... the authorities called on the young man and directed him to give up the young woman. This he
steadfastly refused to do.... He remained true to his intended, and said he would die before he would surrender his intended
wife to the embraces of another.... The young man was ordered to go on a mission to some distant locality... But the mission
was refused...
"It was then determined that the rebellious young man must be forced by harsh treatment to respect the advice and orders of the
Priesthood. His fate was left to Bishop Snow for his decision. He decided that the young man should be castrated; Snow
saying, 'When that is done, he will not be liable to want the girl badly, and she will listen to reason when she knows that her
lover is no longer a man.'
"It was then decided to call a meeting of the people who lived true to counsel, which was held in the school-house in Manti...
The young man was there, and was again requested, ordered and threatened, to get him to surrender the young woman to
Snow, but true to his plighted troth, he refused to consent to give up the girl. The lights were then put out. An attack was made
on the young man. He was severely beaten, and then tied with his back down on a bench, when Bishop Snow took a
bowie-knife, and performed the operation in a most brutal manner, and then took the portion severed from his victim and hung it
up in the school-house on a nail, so that it could be seen by all who visited the house afterwards.
"The party then left the young man weltering in his blood, and in a lifeless condition. During the night he succeeded in releasing
himself from his confinement, and dragged himself to some hay-stacks, where he lay until the next day, when he was discovered
by his friends. The young man regained his health, but has been an idiot or quite lunatic ever since....
"After this outrage old Bishop Snow took occasion to getup a meeting... When all had assembled, the old man talked to the
people about their duty to the Church, and their duty to obey counsel, and the dangers of refusal, and then publicly called
attention to the mangled parts of the young man, that had been severed from his person, and stated that the deed had been done
to teach the people that the counsel of the Priesthood must be obeyed. To make a long story short, I will say, the young woman
was soon after forced into being sealed to Bishop Snow.
"Brigham Young... did nothing against Snow. He left him in charge as Bishop at Manti, and ordered the matter to be hushed
up." ( Ibid., pages 284-286)
Mormons today would be appalled if such a dastardly deed was committed and would demand that the persons responsible be
severely punished. Brigham Young, however, approved of many violent acts perpetrated by those he put in authority.
Interestingly, D. Michael Quinn found documented evidence showing that President Young supported Bishop Warren S. Snow's cruel mistreatment of the young man:
"In the midsummer of 1857 Brigham Young also expressed approval for an LDS bishop who had castrated a man. In May 1857 Bishop Warren S. Snow's counselor wrote that twenty-four-year-old Thomas Lewis 'has now gone crazy' after being castrated by Bishop Snow for an undisclosed sex crime. When informed of Snow's action, Young said: 'I feel to sustain him...'In July Brigham Young wrote a reassuring letter to the bishop about this castration: 'Just let the matter drop, and say no more about it,' the LDS president advised, 'and it will soon die away among the people.' "(The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Vol. 2, pages 250-251)
On November 30, 1871, T. B. H. Stenhouse received a letter by an individual who was present at a meeting in Provo, Utah.
The letter indicated that Bishop Blackburn was also strongly pushing for the emasculation of men who were disobedient to their leaders:
"'I was at a Sunday meeting in the spring of 1857, in Provo, when the news of the San Pete castration was referred to by the
presiding bishop-Blackburn. Some men in Provo had rebelled against authority in some trivial matter, and Blackburn shouted in
his Sunday meeting-a mixed congregation of all ages and both sexes-"I want the people of Provo to understand that the boys in
Provo can use the knife as well as the boys in San Pete. Boys, get your knives ready, there is work for you! We must not be
behind San Pete in good works." The result of this was that two citizens, named Hooper and Beauvere, both having families at
Provo, left the following night... Their only offence was rebellion against the priesthood.
This is a very important letter because it throws additional light upon President Brigham Young's knowledge regarding
emasculation in early Utah. According to Wilford Woodruff's journal, not long after Warren S. Snow's cowardly attack on
Thomas Lewis, President Young discussed the matter of castration being used to save people:
"The subjects of Eunuchs came up... Brigham Said the day would Come when thousands would be made Eunochs in order for
them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)
| Many truth seekers are familiar with the magical seer stones Joseph used to translate the Book of Mormon with. But many people are not aware that Oliver Cowdery used a magic stick referred to as the Rod of Aaron to obtain revelation with.
The ‘gift of Aaron’ referred to in the Doctrine and Covenants used to be called the ‘gift of working with the rod’ in the predecessor of the DandC called the Book of Commandments.
From section 7 of the BofC:
“Now this is not all, for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod: behold it has told you things: behold there is no other power save God, that can cause this rod of nature, to work in your hands…”
Oliver Cowdery’s gift was really a divining rod.
The origins of the Church are much more involved in folk magic and superstition than we’ve been lead to believe by the LDS Church’s heavily-censored versions of its history.
As the Church began to grow, the leaders of the early church were embarrassed by the magical practices that were fundamental to the development of the Church such as the use of seer stones and divining rods. If we accept the beginnings of the Church as actual events, then we must believe that the rod Oliver used was more than just a stick, and that the stone Joseph used to translate the Book of Mormon with was a magic stone. We can see why the Church has moved away from even talking about these things. The church leaders today have distanced themselves from external devices believed to have magic power, to receive God’s revelations. But the historical record is clear that the early Mormon leaders relied on special ‘sticks and stones’ in order to produce “the revelations” they claimed were from God.
To learn more about Oliver’s divining rod: http://mormonthink.com/rodofaaron.htm
To learn more about Joseph’s use of magic stones: http://www.mormonthink.com/transbomwe...
| We all remember Gordon B. Hinckley’s famous “I don’t know that we teach it” moment when he denied a core doctrine of Mormonism on live, national television. What’s interesting is that at the following General Conference, when he addressed members’ concerns about his remarks, he didn’t reiterate the doctrine of deification but simply told members not to be concerned:
"There have been a few things we wish might have been different. I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that’s to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine. I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." (Ensign, Nov 1997, p.4.)
I suspect he did this because he knew that if he had reversed his earlier denial, the national press would have been all over it. Better to just tell the members they need not worry.
Obviously, a sound bite on a TV show does not constitute a binding statement of doctrine, but it does illustrate how fluid Mormon teachings are. A commenter on my blog said yesterday, about homosexuality and the church:
"American civilization may change, but the Lord does not and will not."
I’ve heard this said many times before by members of the church, and it’s almost quaint in its naivete. If the Lord doesn’t change, the church certainly does. All my life I’ve heard that policies and practices change, but doctrines don’t. It’s a nice slogan, but it’s not so.
Let’s start with an easy one. Today in the church, the doctrine is that there are three members of the Godhead: The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit (DandC 130:22). But before that, the doctrine was a two-personed Godhead, with the Holy Ghost being the shared “Mind” of the Father and Son:
"There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things - by whom all things were created and made that are created and made, whether visible or invisible; whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man - or rather, man was formed after his likeness and in his image…. And he being the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fullness of the glory of the Father - possessing the same mind with the Father; which Mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son. (Lectures on Faith 5:2b-2k.)
Another doctrinal change is the rejection of polygamy and polyandry. Of course, the church still believes in polygamy, hence a widower can be sealed to his second wife along with the first. But in the last century, prophets taught that polygamy was essential for exaltation. With the second Manifesto in 1904, the church formally abandoned all earthly practice of polygamy (well, except for some leaders up to 1940 or so). And other than Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, no other person in this “dispensation” has ever been authorized to engage in polyandry.
In 1949, the First Presidency issued a statement that the withholding of the priesthood from those of African descent was a result of “the conduct of [their] spirits in the premortal existence.” After 1978, that doctrine has been referred to as a mere folk doctrine promulgated by a few misguided members.
My commenter also wondered about temple changes. It’s a testament to the church’s skill in erasing its past that a mere eighteen years after the changes, you have active members who have never heard of such things as the penalties and the “orthodox” minister from the pre-1990 temple ceremony. And for the record, I went through the temple the first time in the early 1980s and participated in hundreds of endowments before and after 1990. I’m not going to spend any time here on direct temple content, but suffice it to say that with every sign and token in the temple, there used to an accompanying penalty. We were told, “The representation of the execution of the penalties indicates different ways in which life may be taken.” As I’ve said, these representations involved pantomiming having your throat slit and being eviscerated and disembowelled. And there was a long section involving a sectarian minister who was in the employ of Satan.
What I find interesting is not that the church changes and adapts to the times. A vital and prophet-led church ought to be changing and growing, line upon line. But it’s fascinating to me that some members insist that Mormonism has any lines drawn in the sand. If the church is to survive into the next century, it will adapt and change. And I suspect that, like it has in the past, the church will be a latecomer to the party, but it will eventually change to accommodate gay members. It’s changed before, and it will change again.
| The emphasis on Gethsemane began in the early days of the church with the revelations of J Smith that contradicted other "revelations" he claimed to have received. (See my earler post)
The Gethsemane revelations (DandC 19 and Mosiah 3) were ignored by J Smith himself and other church leaders. John Taylor tried to work it into the atonement story in his book on the atonement -Mediation and Atonement. BH Roberts alluded to the Gethsemane theory (as a place of atonement, along with the cross) in his work, The Truth, The Way, The Life. But the Gethsemane theory as a place of atonement was ignored in public statements of doctrine by the President Snow, when president of the church, went so far as to explain that the Gethsemane experience was only a moment of fear and trepidation by Jesus, and not a place of atonement. I think he was unaware of the John Taylor statements or disagreed with them. And I think he was trying to reconcile DandC 19:16-19 with the other J Smith revelations.
In 1915 Talmage wrote the definitive work that defined the "official LDS doctrine" of the godhead. The whole Mormon idea of the godhead had been muddled and confused with J Smith, B Young's and others private views and "doctrines" (like the Adam God doctrine, god is still progressing doctrines, etc.) So Talmage wrote Jesus the Christ at the request of the First Presidency to clear up and reconcile the godhead mess.
In it he proposed that the atonement actually occurred in two places - Gethsemane and Calvary. He believed that the bloody sweat and DandC 19:16-19 pointed to this conclusion. (He was unaware that the bloody sweat was not found in the older editions of the Gospel of Luke but are a later addition). But his Gethsemane theory was not addressed in the public address of the presidents of the church. They continued to preach a mainline Christian view of the atonement - Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind.
Joseph Fielding Smith was the first to write extensively about Gethsemane as a place of atonement. He used his position as the "official" arbitrator of official Mormon doctrine. He actually said (and we received the material to teach in CES) that the whole atonement took place in Gethsemane, and Jesus only died on the cross because it fulfilled prophecy. He said the greatest suffering took place in Gethsemane. He downplayed the cross and criticized mainline Christians for believing that the cross was anything but an instrument of torture and death. This was a popular LDS view for decades and as I said was taught in the LDS inndoctrination incubators (seminary and institute classes).
Bruce R. McConkie began writing his Mortal Messiah series and researched Talmage's work - Jesus the Christ. He drew attention to Talmage's original thesis that the atonement occurred in two steps: (1) Gethsemane and (2) the cross. This has become the latest "official" view of the atonement (Mortal Messiah Book IV).
This is quite a bit different than mainline Christianity's view of the atonement. They have never placed the emphasis on Gethsemane as anything other than a place for Jesus to pray to gain strength for the cross ordeal, where they believe the actual atonement took place. When Christians criticize Mormon doctrines, they usually include criticism of the view that Gethsemane was where all or part of the atonement took place. They have a little trouble because different generations of Mormons teach a different view: older Mormons teach that the atonement occurred in Gethsemane (Joseph Fielding Smith), and younger ones teach the McConkie/Talmage idea - Gethsemane and Calvary both were where the atonement took place.
I was always amazed at the hostility that LDS members consistently acted out against a tiny cross on a necklace (or a tie tac). It's only a symbol folks!
It bothered me enough that as a bishop I took a couple of the 5th Sunday sessions allotted to me to teach anything I wanted to talk to my ward members about acting so snotty toward other churches and their beloved symbols (including the cross). I asked them if they liked others making fun of LDS symbols associated with the temple, garments, etc. I told them it defeated all the good will they were trying to create in the community, with the rest of our Christian and non-Christian neighbors.
I don't know if it did any good. They just looked at me like I had lost my marbles.
| Mormons place a lot of emphasis on the necessity of a valid baptism. The first requirement is that it must be performed by a man who holds the priesthood (in modern Mormonism, that is any priesthood holder except a deacon or teacher).
But it is also essential, apparently, to use the correct words for the ceremony; if the words pronounced are not exactly according to the prescribed formula, the baptism is not valid. The Church Handbook of Instructions p. 36 (2006 edition) says: "The baptism must be repeated if the words are not spoken exactly as given in Doctrine and Covenants 20:73."
The correct formula, according to DandC 20:73, is: "[Name of candidate] Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."
Now a question arises when looking at Jesus' instructions to the Nephites. Jesus told the Nephites that the correct words were: "Having AUTHORITY GIVEN ME of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen." [emphasis added]
Why the difference? Were the Nephite baptisms not valid? Or does it really not matter what the exact words are?
It gets even more complicated, when we read about Alma's baptizing Helam (Mosiah 18:13), where Alma used these words: "Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world."
Was Helam's baptism valid? According to CHI, apparently not.
And what about Jesus' baptism? Did John the Baptist really say, "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ..."? Or maybe, "Having been commissioned of YOU..."?
I suggest that the only possible solution is to conclude that the CHI is wrong (even though it was written under the authority of the present prophets), and that it really doesn't matter what the exact words are.
So, elders, next time you do a baptism, try using Alma's words, or even Jesus' words in 3 Nephi (could Jesus be wrong??). Or any old thing. It's the intent that counts, right? Here are some suggestions:
After calling the person by name,
"You are going to be washed clean of your sins now! Amen!"
"I am authorized to baptize you by dunking you in this cold water. Amen!"
"In the name of all the Gods, I baptize you. Amen!"
"You want your sins washed away? Hold your breath! Amen!"
"I'm gonna dunk you so God won't flunk you! Amen!
| As a Mormon did you know this is how the "Nephite Record" and "Urim and Thummin" were recorded LINKS in the Mormon Church history books?
To set the scene: this is Palmyra New York, around 1829, Joseph Smith Jr and his wife Emma Hale (newly married-1827) are at the home of his parents Joseph Smith Sr. and his wife Lucy Mack Smith , and their children. Mr. Knight is visiting. Joseph and his older brother Hyrum are in their early 20's. There are younger children in the home.
(link to the family pedigrees http://www.josephsmithsr.com/home/ind... - see home page for other family lines. )
Some info on B H Roberts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._H._Ro...
This is the book that is the clincher: "Studies of the Book of Mormon" http://www.signaturebooks.com/studies...
Now onto the historical account that most of you probably never heard of!
This is info from a standard history book of the Mormon Church:
" "A Comprehensive History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." by B.H. Roberts
VOL 1 "How the Book of Mormon was Obtained"
These books are in the LDS Data base on CD, also in their libraries (Ward/Stake/Institute of Religion)in the REFERENCE section.
I own the whole set in paperback which I purchased in the late 70s before they were discontinued.
A few notes:
B H Roberts says that they were dressed "for riding" by taking the horse and spring wagon of Mr. Knight (some would call this stealing, as they did not ask permission of Mr. Knight who was a guest in his home) and went to the "hill Cumorah, and in he presence of Moroni obtained the Nephite record, the breast-plate and Urim and Thummim.
pg. 87, "Early the next morning, Mr. Knight discovered both his horse and wagon were gone, suspected some "rogue had stolen them. Lucy Smith volunteered no information as to Joseph having made use of the horse and wagon, but tried to pacify Mr. Knight with the idea that they were but temporarily out of the way."
When Joseph returned home, he took his mother aside and showed her the Urim and Thummim which he had evidently detached from the breast plate and concealed on his own person when depositing the plates...he seemed to have kept the instrument constantly about him after that time as by means of it he could at will be made aware of approaching danger to the record."
The next chapter is entitled:
pg. 88 Other Psychics Than the Prophet "The fact was that Joseph Smith was not the only psychic in the vicinity of Palmyra."
He had previously asked Lucy (his mother) very early in the morning if she had a chest with a lock and key but she could not locate one.
This is the reason Joseph pg. 86 "concealed them temporarily, in the woods some two or three miles distant. He found a fallen birch log that was much decayed .....carefully cutting the bark and removing sufficient of the decayed wood to admit ...the plates, ...they were deposited in the cavity, the bark drawn together again and as far as possible all signs of the log having been disturbed obliterated."
Pg 93 - "The Breastplate of Urim and Thummim
"It has been several times remarked that with the plates on which a brief history of the ancient American peoples was engrave, there was an ancient breast-plate to which, when the Prophet took possession of it, the Urim and Thummim were attached.
This breast-plate it appears the Prophet did not bring home with him when he brought the record. But a few days later, according to a statement by Lucy Smith, he came into the house from the field one afternoon and after remaining a a short time put on his "great coat" and left the house.
On his returning the mother was engaged in an upper room of the house preparing oilcloth for painting - it will be remembered that this was an art she has followed for some years. Joseph called to her and asked her to come down stairs. To this she answered she could not then leave her work, but Joseph insisted and she came downstairs and entered the room where he was whereupon he placed in her hands the Nephite breast plate herein alluded to.
'It was wrapped in a a thin muslin handkerchief,' she explains, 'so thin that I could feel it's proportions without any difficulty'. It was concave on one side, convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material, for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They dwere just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them). and they had holes in the end of them, to be convenient in fastening. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummin."
I highly recommend reading the B H Roberts books. They are filled with things you have never heard in church. The set comes with an Index, which in invaluable also.
It is no wonder these stories have been sanitized into faith promoting versions over the years. The real history is just too wild and crazy to believe! :-)
This was the kind of information that finally hit home with me. There was no way Joseph Smith Jr was telling the truth about anything. He made up his stories, visions, religion, and BOM fiction from the get-go and the best that could be said for him is that he created a faith-based hoax/scam that Brigham Young could use! These young men were on a path to create an isolated religion and hold their power close to the chest.
Thanks to the Brighamites, Mormonism is still alive and well today!
| Mormon Apologetics And Discussion: Was God Once A Man? Not Officially!
Wednesday, May 27, 2009, at 08:07 AM
Original Author(s): Dwight Frye
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | Where else but the MADhouse could you find supposed believing, faithful, active Latter-day Saints claiming that the belief that God the Father was once a man is not an official doctrine of the Church?
Nevermind that Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (the official Sunday School manual which, according to an official Church website, "should be part of every adult member's gospel library"), teaches: "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church," and "God the Father was once a man on another planet" who “passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality.”
Nevermind that Gospel Principles says of God the Father, "He was once a man like us... God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth...."
Nevermind that the seminary manual, Doctrine and Covenants Student Study Guide, teaches the Snow couplet along with Snow's belief that it was a "revelation" from "the Spirit of the Lord" and "a sacred communication."
Nevermind that the Aaronic Priesthood Manual 2 quotes the Snow couplet, approvingly, by all appearances -- and in Lesson 1, no less!
Nevermind that the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual quotes the relevant portion of the King Follet Discourse after describing it as one of the "truths about the Godhead [that was] restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith."
Nevermind that the relevant portion of the King Follet Discourse and the Lorenzo Snow couplet appear, without any indication that such teachings are false, questionable, speculative, opinion, or anything other than the gospel truth, in the following Church-published publications published by the Church:
The Fulness of the Gospel: The Nature of the Godhead, Ensign, January 2006
The Quest for Spiritual Knowledge, New Era, January 2007
The King Follet Sermon, Ensign, April 1971
Qandamp;A: Questions and Answers, New Era, April 1971
Our Great Potential, Ensign, May 1977
Gospel Art Picture Kit: Lorenzo Snow
Decision, Ensign, May 1978
Eliza R. Snow Poetry Contest Winners, Ensign, July 1989
Funstuf - President Lorenzo Snow Crossword, Friend, March 2002
Mormonad, New Era, June 1982
Mirthright, Ensign, March 1983
When Our Children Go Astray, Ensign, February 1997
Strengthening the Family: Created in the Image of God, Male and Female, Ensign, January 2005
Nevermind that I could go on and on with such examples, and nevermind that the Church, on an official website identifying itself as the "Official Resource" for the public and media, in an article prepared, appropriately enough, to help outsiders determine what actually is Mormon doctrine, says, "With divine inspiration, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications" (and nevermind that, as shown above, the teaching that God was once a man has most assuredly been "consistenly proclaimed in official Church publications").
And nevermind the cherry sitting atop the whole danged ol thing:
I Have a Question: Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement–“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”–accepted as official doctrine by the Church?, Ensign, February 1982 (answer: yes)
Now, why, you might be asking yourself, would supposed faithful, believing, active Latter-day Saints, in the face of all the evidence otherwise, wish to claim that the teaching that God was once a man is not an official doctrine of the Church? Well, I'll tell you. It's because a journalist here and there, much like potential customers might ask a Cheverolet dealer about a Cheverolet automobile, asked Gordon B. Hinckley if this was a teaching of the Church, and he, rather than follow the council given in Matthew 5:37, harkened instead to the famous Five D's of Dodgeball: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge!
It's amazing to me how apologists throw the Mormon prophets of yesteryear under the bus when they contradict the new and improved correlated "official" doctrine of today, but throw the doctrine under the bus when a current prophet shows signs of discomfort with it.
| Do The Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods? Yes. See Official Doctrine And Documentation
Thursday, Jul 29, 2010, at 09:13 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | The best book for official doctrine is: Gospel Principles 2009 Edition. (Link below)
This book will answer probably any question about official LDS doctrine.
See: "becoming Gods " Chapter 47: EXHALATION (The principle is: eternal progression.)
EXCERPT:
"Blessings of Exaltation
• What are some blessings that will be given to those who are exalted?
Our Heavenly Father is perfect, and He glories in the fact that it is possible for His children to become like Him. His work and glory is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).
Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (DandC 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:
1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see DandC 76:62).
***2. They will become gods (see DandC 132:20–23).
3. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have–all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see DandC 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them”
Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:36; italics in original.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp...
REFERENCE:
Doctrine and Covenants: 132: 20 to 23
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132
http://mrm.org/gospel-principles
Please note the differences 1985 to 1992
And especially note the yellow highlights - 1997 to 2009- strikes out
This is the way our Heavenly Father became God.
Joseph Smith taught:
"It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did"
| Compare:
Diary of Joseph Smith, Friday, May 31, 1844 – "called to see Sister Richards who was very sick. Laid on hands. Directed some Raspberry tea and she was better." Scott H. Faulring, ed., An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, 2nd ed., (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), p. 486.
With:
History of the Church 6:424, entry for Friday, May 31, 1844 sanitized to protect the Mormons' faith now reads,
"called to see Sister Richards, who was sick. I administered to her laying on of hands, when she felt better."
Also, there's this gem that didn't even get sanitized, it was left out entirely: Saturday, June 1, 1844 – "Drank a glass of beer at Moissers" Faulring, supra.
Too bad the compilers of HoC didn't include it to read:
"Drank a glass of sarsaparilla soda water at the Pharmacy."
| I came upon this site, which has actual doctrine and then some juicy myths that I recognized (ok-and once believed LOL)
http://www.i4m.com/think/lists/mormon...
Cosmology
- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.
- God lives on a giant crystal ball. See DandC 130:6-8.
- God's home planet orbits a star named "Kolob." See Abraham 3:3
- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.
- The Sun "borrows it's light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash.. which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.. and receives light from the revolutions of Kolob." This quote comes directly from the Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 5. Also see: http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-defi...
- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"
- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" kingdoms (planets). See DandC 130:9
- God's home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"
- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.
- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163
- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perdition that deny His spirit. This includes all Ex-Mormons. See "The Creation," page 146 and DandC 101:90-91
- The light of Christ is the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See DandC 88:7. (The "light" refered to may very well be literal, as well as figurative and symbolic, speaking about Christ's influence.)
- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.
mormon-scienceCreation
- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 350-352.
- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5, 6:51 and Endowment Ceremony.
- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, all of us helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, we created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. See Abraham 3:22-24, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 74-75.
- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradicts the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third day (creation of life, vegetation and seeds) and fourth day (creation of light, moon and stars) of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, whereas Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).
- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).
- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference. Taught by LDS Church apostle during stake fireside, but still need reference.
Extra-Terrestrials
- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article "People on Other Worlds" April 1971.
- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Pearl of Great Price, but UFO connection made by LDS Church Seminary teacher. Still need reference.
- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/e... for many scriptural and Joseph Smith prophetic references.
- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See DandC 110:11 and 133:26.
- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. See Moses 7:36
- God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Common teaching from LDS Church Seminary teachers, but still need reference.
- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Christ's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth. See November 1985 Ensign "Is Jesus Christ the Savior of all the worlds God created or just ours?"
- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Supposedly came from early church conference address by church apostle, but still need reference.
- God created all the planets in our solar system with the explicit "law" to support human life. The other planets in our solar system are already populated or are able to support human life. See "The Essential Orson Pratt, p.373"
- Lucifer only did to Adam and Eve "the same thing which has been done in "OTHER WORLDS," according to the temple endowment. This shows Mormon doctrine embraces the idea of life on other planets.
- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919
Mormon Physics
- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See DandC 131:7.
- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.
- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See DandC 61:13-19
- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Begotten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is supposedly from ther church's official publication "Jesus the Christ" but is often taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 15:232
Other Dimensions
- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-existence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spiritual awareness. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- God lives in the fourth dimension, which explains why he can see everything, be everywhere and know all time. In fact, as three-dimensional beings, if we could visit flatland (a two-dimensional universe) the inhabitants would think we were Gods. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. Mormon folklore, source reference needed.
Time and Time Travel
- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Very common Mormon belief, source reference needed.
- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5
- God lives by "celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit" See Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 1.
- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See Abraham 5:13
- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See DandC 130:10-11
- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31
- A righteous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the DandC 122:9.
- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, pp. 64, 65).
- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham. Also see DandC 101:32-34.
- The earth's lifetime is divided into "dispensations" of time. The correct name for our current dispensation of time is "Adam-ondi-Ahman" which Joseph Smith explained to mean "The place or land of God where Adam dwelt." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 19-20)
Geology
- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existence is 7,000 years. See DandC 77:6
- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are righteous enough. This was preached from the pulpit at the Tabernacle by the Prophet of the Church. See Journal of Discourses 1:264.
- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Carbon dating is phony because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)
- Prophet preaches from the Tabernacle pulpit in General Conference that "Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head, or the wheat in the field.." See JoD 1:209.
Mormon Biology
- Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall. Blood is the life of the mortal body." After Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, blood became "the life-giving fluid in Adam's body, and was inherited by his posterity. Blood was not only the life of the mortal body, but also contained in it the seeds of death which bring the mortal body to its end. Previously the life force in Adam's body, which is likewise the sustaining power in every immortal body, was the spirit." - Joseph Fielding Smith, Man: His Origin and Destiny (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954), pp. 362, 376-77.
- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more pure blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Adam did not have a navel, Eve did. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Mormonism directly explains the creation of at least one race by God. Mormon scripture taught that Cain was so evil, God cursed him and his lineage with black skin, creating the African race. See Moses 7:22. Mormon Doctrine explains: "Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." Mormon Doctrine, Page 102.
- When Native Americans become Mormons, their skin turns white. The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught the principle of this process in a General Conference address. He stated how the "Indians are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation... These young [Indian] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." LDS General Conference, October 1960, Spencer W. Kimball, (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). Also see the original Mormon prophesy of this effect in 2 Nephi 30:6.
- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).
- All races, including Blacks, Asians, Indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white Caucasians. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon, Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17
- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. See LDS Church News Archives, Saturday, January 15, 2000, "Resurrection is a priesthood ordinance. 'As to how the dead are raised, we know that it is by the power of Jesus Christ because He holds the keys of death, hell, and resurrection,' said Brother Matthews. '. . . President Brigham Young and Elder Erastus Snow taught that the resurrection will be conducted much as other things are done in the kingdom, by those in authority and by delegation.'"
- Resurrected bodies do not have blood but instead rely on the spirit to stay alive. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Our Father in heaven and our Savior and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body is quickened by blood... . Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creations." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 76-77).
| The church disclaims them now, but the older prophets said:
What is the Journal of Discourses?
"The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press as an additional reflector of "the light that shines from Zion's hill." (Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 8)
This statement by George Q. Cannon, Apostle of God, sets the scene for what has become regarded by true Gospel scholars as one of the most important sources of doctrinal teaching in this the dispensation of the fullness of times.
President Joseph F. Smith, counsellor to Brigham Young and later Prophet of God, made this statement with reference to the Journal of Discourses:-
"We feel confident that the important instructions on principle and doctrine therein contained, relative to the building of Temples, the salvation of the dead, the introduction of the Order of Enoch, and the general progress and development of the great Latter-day Work, will prove as interesting, gratifying and beneficial to the Saints and to posterity, as those that have been previously published through this medium.
We regret that the circulation of the JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES is so limited. Its importance would warrant a thousand-fold greater extension of this work. We anticipate a time, not distant in the future, when a copy of the present volume will be more precious than gold. It is even now almost impossible to obtain a complete series. Copies should therefore be carefully preserved by all subscribers. (Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 18)
What are these Volumes that have been so highly recommended? Who compiled them? If they are so important why are they not well known and used regularly by the general membership of the Church today? Are copies available? If so, where and how can they be obtained?
Hopefully this article will answer these and many other important questions with regards to possibly the greatest, but probably the least read, series of books in Latter-day Saint history!
The Journal of Discourses are a set of 26 volumes, adding up to nearly 10,000 pages of talks that were extemporaneously given. The early Saints felt that it was important that speakers should follow closely the admonition in the scriptures;
"Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say; but treasure up in your minds continually the words of life, and it shall be given you in the very hour that portion that shall be meted unto every man." (DandC 84:85)
This was confirmed by Apostle and future member of the First Presidency, John Henry Smith, when he, acting as editor in charge of the Journal of Discourses, wrote the preface to the 24th volume:
"This, the Twenty-fourth Volume of the JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, like its predecessors, consists of sermons of Latter-day Saints, extemporaneously delivered and phonographically reported. That those who are privileged with its perusal may profit not only by the letter, but by the spirit also of the utterances herein recorded, is the earnest desire of the publisher." (Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 24)
In fact, in the preface to the index, produced and compiled at Brigham Young University in 1959, the statement was made:
"...In most cases it appears that the speakers depended almost entirely upon inspiration from the Holy Ghost, and the subjects discussed were intended for the greatest benefit of the Saints." (Paragraph 2, Preface, Journal of Discourses Index.)
Surely this is an example to us all. I, for one, have never come across anyone that has failed to be impressed by the Spiritual feast that is to be found within these Journals, as they carefully peruse its pages.
The talks contained in the Journal of Discourses were given by over 100 different authorities in the Church, the majority, by Apostles and Prophets of God. The discourses, in the main were given between the years of 1854 and 1886, but some talks that had been given previous to these years were also included, as well as some that were given by the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Some people have stated, without any foundation whatsoever, that the talks reported in the "Journals" were inaccurately recorded and reported. But all the evidence that is available goes to show that those chosen to make a record of the talks, did so in an extremely accurate manner, and had the complete confidence of the leaders of the Church in giving a faithful and reliable record of that which was said.
In fact, Brigham Young once stated:
"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom, as I know the road to my office. It is just as plain and easy. The Lord is in our midst. He teaches the people continually. I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve." (Journal of Discourses 13:95)
he also said this:
"I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good scripture as is couched in this Bible, and if you want to read revelation read the sayings of him who knows the mind of God,..."
Obviously, Brigham Young approved and supported the Journal of Discourses and anybody who reads them with the Spirit of God as their guide "will know for themselves, and not for another," that the talks contained therein are truly the word of God to all who have "ears to hear."
"Each successive Volume of these Discourses is a rich mine of wealth, containing gems of great value, and the diligent seeker will find ample reward for his labor. After the fathers and mothers of this generation have made them the study of their lives their children's children will find that they are still unexhausted, and rejoice that this Record has been handed down from their fathers to also aid them in following the way of life.
No one can remain a Saint long, unless he progresses by seeking after the higher knowledge, spirit, and power of those who are set to lead him. A little observation and experience will also satisfy him that he can never fully understand their sayings until he has advanced as far as they have, and sees and comprehends as they do, hence he will ever find their instructions the great fountain from which he must draw the elements of his own progress." (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 3.)
Orson Pratt, truly described the "Journals" as a "rich mine of wealth," and encouraged people to read it's pages. Why then are there so few people which do this? It has been estimated that there are only a dozen or so copies in the whole of the British Isles; if they are so important, why is this?
Possibly one of the answers that is given, is the cost element. With 26 Volumes, normally in hardback, the cost for a complete set is normally well over $200.00, and individual copies are few and far between.
But surely, I hear you say, if they are so important, the Church could produce them in large quantities, and have the cost drastically reduced. Well, I'm sure they could, if they had a mind to, but for some reason, the Church leadership have major qualms over the benefit of the "Journals" to the Saints of today, and many leaders of the Church recently, have even expressed that they would not even have a set in their own home, and would be concerned if they knew of members that did! Mark E. Peterson, stated himself that:
"I personally never use them..."
and
"It seems to me that we have so many good books in the Church that are accepted that we could do very well to obtain what we need from the Journal of Discourses from the books that the Church itself has published, such for instance as the Discourses of Brigham Young, prepared by Dr. Widtsoe." (Letter from Mark E. Peterson to Ernest Cook, 30th November 1976, copy in authors possession.)
From what Elder Peterson states, he seems to imply that the "Journal of Discourses" are not accepted by the Church, and that they were not published by the Church at all!! A fact that all informed people know to be false. As a point of interest, the book recommended by Elder Peterson, "The Discourses of Brigham Young" by John A. Widstoe, has much selective editing involved, as well as some of the most vital tenets of the early Church being omitted. There has even been some falsification in the transferring in some of President Young's talks, totally changing the context of what he said!
I think though, that I would agree with Elder Peterson on his first point, that the Church does not, today at least, accept the "Journal of Discourses" as an official organ of Church doctrine, which in some ways is strange, because doctrines or principles cannot change, they are eternal, and those principles and doctrines which leaders of the Church taught 150 or so years ago, should still be true today.
We all understand that the Journals contain items of instruction that were specifically given to benefit the Saints of that day, but there is also much contained therein that should be as beneficial and applicable to the Saints today, as it was back then. Surely that is what Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith were saying in the quotations cited above!!
One benefit or blessing of living in this day and age, is the computer, and now, the Journal of Discourses in its entirety is available on computer disc, and enables the user to easily search through all the volumes in a matter of seconds for any reference that they so wish. These discs are cheaper than the books themselves, and are much more easily available. The "Truth Seeker" offices can be contacted with more information as to where these may be obtained. The following quotation shows how the Saints, as well as non-members would have appreciated the facility that we have today.
"We now present the Eighteenth Volume of the JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES to the Saints, and to all lovers of the Truth.
It is impossible to give monetary value to the past volumes of this publication, and the best evidence that they are appreciated, is to be found in the fact that they are sought alike by non-members as well as by members of the Church, and in contrast with many works of greater pretentions, book-stalls are searched in vain for even solitary copies.
Those who read the utterances of the servants of God, contained in this book, under the same influence by which the speakers were inspired, cannot fail to receive profit from the perusal. Therefore, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 18)
I think also the advice given in the final paragraph of the above statement by Joseph F. Smith is very applicable to all who have an opportunity of reading the "Journals," and should be heeded. Surely then, the promise made by Apostle Albert Carrington will help us in achieving the ultimate goal of exaltation.
"We take great pleasure in presenting to the Saints and the world the Fifteenth Volume of the JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, which they will find contains rich treasures of information concerning the glorious principles of Eternal Life, as revealed through God's anointed servants in these last days.
All who read the discourses contained in this Volume are earnestly recommended to adapt them to their lives by practice, and we can confidently assure them that, in doing so, they are laying up a store of knowledge that will save and exalt them in the Celestial kingdom." (Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 15)
In conclusion, let me encourage all to feast upon the spiritual food contained within these books. Do not let anyone put you off reading the wonderful talks contained therein.
Remember:
"All men can be profited by perusing its pages and pondering over the words of truth and salvation as they flow in beautiful simplicity and power from the mouths of the Living Oracles." (George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses. Preface, Volume 9)
The "Journal of Discourses:"
"...ought to prove a valuable acquisition to all those who love the truth, and long for redemption of scattered Israel.The "Journal of Discourses" is a vehicle of doctrine, counsel, and instruction to all people, but especially to the Saints." (Daniel H. Wells, Journal of Discourses, Preface. Volume 10)
"It is replete with good teachings and wise counsels, and it may be read with profit by all lovers of truth." (Albert Carrington, Journal of Discourses. Preface, Volume 17)
(from Truth Seeker (Messenger) Magazine)
| How Long Until The "Garden Of Gethsemane" Goes The Way Of The Mormon Garden Of Eden Being In Missouri?
Thursday, Apr 21, 2011, at 08:58 AM
Original Author(s): Freevolved
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | You know, "I don't know that we teach that...I don't know that we emphasize that...is that really important to your salvation?"
The Mormon view of the Atonement of Jesus is very different from other Christian denominations. A good overview of how Mormon's view Jesus' Atonement can be found in DandC 19: 17-19
"17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit–and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink–
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men."
This passage is referring to what is termed the "agony in the Garden," a passage in Luke 22:43-44 which states:
"43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground."
(King James Version)
This is part of the reason that Mormons do not focus on the cross, or death of Jesus. To them, the cross is not really where the atonement occurred--the garden is.
Essentially Mormons believe that in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus "took upon himself" the sins, pains, and suffering of not only all the people that have ever lived or will live on this planet, but other planets as well.
So what's the problem with this (other than it's silly)?
The Mormon doctrine of the Atonement rests solely on two verses in the Gospel of Luke. This event is not referred to in any of the other New Testament sources.
The real problem with this passage is that the writer of the Gospel of Luke (we'll call him Luke, even though that's not who he was) did not actually write Luke 22:43-44! These verses appeared many years after Luke had first written his Gospel narrative. They were added by scribes years after the fact! These verses can not be found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of Luke!
(for more information)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agony_in... and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ln-S7...
Which means this information is coming from who knows where, and YEARS after it supposedly happened--indicating that it couldn't possibly have happened.
With the cross being built on the door of the Rome temple I can only wonder if people up top are deciding that this is just one more never-changing doctrine that needs some fixing up...
| Apostle Parley P. Pratt Definitely Stated That No Changes Were Made In The Revelations
Monday, May 9, 2011, at 07:48 AM
Original Author(s): Jod3:360
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | Apostle Parley P. Pratt definitely stated that no changes were made in the revelations. His statement is recorded in a footnote on page 173 of Vol. 1 of the History of the Church:
Elder Parley P. Pratt,... takes occasion to relate how this and other revelations were given through the Prophet. "Each sentence," says he, "was uttered slowly and very distinctly, and with a pause between each, sufficiently long for it to be recorded by an ordinary writer in long hand. This was the manner in which all his written revelations were dictated and written. There was never any hesitation, reviewing, or reading back, in order to keep the run of the subject; neither did any of these communications undergo revisions, interlinings or corrections. As he dictated them so they stood, so far as I have witnessed;..."
Apostle John A. Widtsoe stated:
Within a few years after its organization, the Church had received practically all necessary supplementary laws and regulations. These also have remained unchanged. There has been no tampering with God's word.... the whole body of Church laws forms a harmonious unit, which does not anywhere contradict itself nor has it been found necessary to alter any part of it. (Joseph Smith–Seeker After Truth, pages 119 and 122)
Joseph Fielding Smith made this comment concerning Joseph Smith's revelations:
Inspiration is discovered in the fact that each part, as it was revealed, dovetailed perfectly with what had come before. There was no need for eliminating, changing, or adjusting any part to make it fit; but each new revelation on doctrine and priesthood fitted in its place perfectly to complete the whole structure, as it had been prepared by the Master Builder. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol, 1, page 170)
The Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards was asked if changes were made in the revelations; in his reply, dated May 12, 1966, he stated:
Now answering your questions. Your first question: "Have the early revelations of the church been revised and have some additional clauses been inserted as some people claim?" Answer: I am past eighty years of age. I have filled four missions, been bishop of three wards, president of a stake, for fourteen years the Presiding Bishop of the Church, and now for fourteen years a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, and I know of no changes that have been made during that time. I have just discussed this matter with President Joseph Fielding Smith, the Church Historian, and he indicates that in the Book of Mormon, there have been a few grammatical changes; no changes have been made that in any way change the meaning of any sentence; an "are" might be changed to a "were" to make it more grammatically correct....
There may have been a few words changed in the Doctrine and Covenants and President Smith thought there had been one section left out which was instruction rather than revelation....
HOWEVER-
Mervin J. Petersen, who wrote his thesis for the BYU, found that 703 words have been changed, 1,656 words added and 453 words deleted since the revelations were first printed in the Book of Commandments. ("A Study of the Nature of and the Significance of the Changes in the Revelations...," typed copy, p.118)
MEANWHILE - http://mrm.org/michael-j-barrett
At first, I attempted to persuade church leaders that honesty was our best option. I was told that the decision already had been made by leaders such as Boyd K. Packer and Elder Dallin Oaks: Some facts, some doctrines, are embarrassing and must be concealed.
Only faith-inspiring facts and doctrines may be discussed. Anything that is not immediately faith-promoting is considered to be "advanced history" (Packer's term) and must be concealed with all of the zeal of a corporate lawyer hiding documents that could incriminate his company.
On one occasion, he called me in and he, together with Elder F. Burton Howard of the First Quorum of the Seventy, directed me to stop disclosing our doctrines and history publicly even though these teachings were taken from church publications, church records and public documents.
Howard, a lawyer, told me the public had no business knowing what President Joseph F. Smith said in his sworn testimony to Congress about polygamy in 1904. He said that any member of the church who would reveal that Smith's testimony was false was unworthy of a temple "recommend."
| In 1909 the First Presidency made a statement on the origin of man. It was reprinted in February 2002 in the Ensign magazine.
"It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was "the first man of all men" (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race."
http://lds.org/ensign/2002/02/the-ori...
Apologists take advantage of the words "our race". They define race as a cultural, not a biological distinction.
http://www.mormonfortress.com/evoluti...
Page 3 "Adam can be the “primal parent of our race” – or cultural group – without discarding the evolutionary model."
What this is saying is that Adam and Eve originated a superior cultural group in the midst of evolved hominids. The race of men, "our race" as worded by the First Presidency of 1909, was that cultural group. Those people outside of Adam and Eve were from evolution but instead of being biologically different, it was the cultural differences that made different races.
A BYU textbook was printed in 1979 titled "Science and Religion: Toward a More Useful Dialogue, Volume II, Paladin House Publishers, Geneva, Illinois". Page 208 has a statement that I took interest in long ago. It says: “Perhaps with Adam came a general enlightenment of man in the Near East, which accounts for the shift in cultural evolution...”
This is where my troubles began. I had no problem with science but the way LDS are trying to bring their religion into agreement with science caused me to decide to resign. There is a long history of the idea of people not being from Adam and Eve and it came up largely after Europeans realized that the new lands of America were not in the Bible. The racism that followed often used religion to justify the atrocities. Some of the more extreme Christians promoted and still promote that Adam and Eve were the first parents of only the white race.
Mormonism bleeds into the borders of this issue because of the Book of Mormon. And despite the apologists words of cultural instead of biology as the distinction between people, LDS teachings make ancestral lines (biological) more significant than does mainstream Christianity. For example, consider patriarchal blessings.
"Patriarchal blessings contemplate an inspired declaration of the lineage of the recipient, and also, where so moved upon by the Spirit, an inspired and prophetic statement of the life mission of the recipient, together with such blessings, cautions, and admonitions as the patriarch may be prompted to give.
[Statement of the First Presidency, 28 June 1957]"
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hid...
The January 1991 Ensign explained that the inspired declarations of lineage are more than cultural, they are biological.
"lineages declared in patriarchal blessings are almost always statements of actual blood lines; they are not simply tribal identifications by assignment."
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp...
This teaching about blood lines is still found in a current institute manual.
“Every person who embraces the gospel becomes of the house of Israel. In other words, they become members of the chosen lineage, or Abraham’s children through Isaac and Jacob unto whom the promises were made. The great majority of those who become members of the Church are literal descendants of Abraham through Ephraim, son of Joseph. Those who are not literal descendants of Abraham and Israel must become such, and when they are baptized and confirmed they are grafted into the tree and are entitled to all the rights and privileges as heirs” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:245–46).
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doct...
Most non-American Indians are given the tribe of Ephraim in their patriarchal blessings. The American Indian are given Manasseh and are told that they are special people because they are literally from the House of Israel. But Manasseh is a subordinate tribe, Ephraim stands at the head.
http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/ephraim-...
"Ephraim. Fruitful. The second son of Joseph (Gen. 41:52; 46:20); but at the blessing by Jacob, Ephraim was set before Manasseh, the elder son (48:19–20)."
"Ephraim was given the birthright in Israel (1 Chr. 5:1–2; Jer. 31:9), and in the last days it has been the tribe of Ephraim’s privilege first to bear the message of the restoration of the gospel to the world and to gather scattered Israel (Deut. 33:13–17; DandC 64:36; 133:26–34)."
LDS Institute manuals explain how these scriptures work in Mormonism.
“It is essential in this dispensation that Ephraim stand in his place at the head, exercising the birthright in Israel which was given to him by direct revelation. Therefore, Ephraim must be gathered first to prepare the way, through the gospel and the priesthood, for the rest of the tribes of Israel when the time comes for them to be gathered to Zion. The great majority of those who have come into the Church are Ephraimites. It is the exception to find one of any other tribe, unless it is of Manasseh.
“It is Ephraim, today, who holds the priesthood. It is with Ephraim that the Lord has made covenant and has revealed the fulness of the everlasting gospel. It is Ephraim who is building temples and performing the ordinances in them for both the living and for the dead. When the ‘lost tribes’ come–and it will be a most wonderful sight and a marvelous thing when they do come to Zion–in fulfilment of the promises made through Isaiah and Jeremiah, they will have to receive the crowning blessings from their brother Ephraim, the ‘firstborn’ in Israel” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:252–53).
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-21-30-24.asp
Mormons tell everyone that the American Indian are special people from Israel, but they don't emphasize the teaching that non-Indians are more special. It is all based on pretended blood lines, inheritance from mythical ancestors. And now the apologists are trying to bring the science of evolution into agreement with their religion by saying it is not biological, it is cultural.
It is worse now with the loss of who is Lamanite. Science could not find DNA in the American Indians to support the Book of Mormon and the LDS church responded by allowing for other people including the paleo-Indian ancestors that pre-dated Adam and Eve. Apologists explain that this gene pool of people from ancient Asian migrations has diluted the DNA from Book of Mormon migrations so that it cannot be found. The apologist method of bringing science and religion together allows for non-Book of Mormon people in America to be from evolution, not from Adam and Eve.
These ideas about evolution and the Bible become unique with Mormons because of the claim that the Book of Mormon is a real history. The sickening argument from apologists that Hebrew DNA is too diluted to be found entirely ignores the pre/co-Adamite implications. So where does this place Mormonism in the 21st Century?
Some Mormons speculate about temple dedicatory prayers mentioning children of Lehi. Some applaud this because it supports the Meso-America theory. But where does that leave my wife and her people? No mention of Lehi was made in the Bismark North Dakota prayer. Many days I wonder what century the Mormons are living in.
Take a quick look at the United Nations Declaration on race, a position that was written after Hitler's attempt to exterminate an entire group of people.
http://www.unesco.org/education/infor...
Here are some points in the link:
Page 1
"Convinced that the essential unity of the human race and consequently the fundamental equality of all human beings and all peoples, recognized in the loftiest expressions of philosophy, morality and religion, reflect an ideal towards which ethics and science are converging today,"
Science does provide an essential unity of the human race, all having descended from common ancestors. But Mormonism's attempt to keep their beliefs is bringing back the old idea that not everyone was from Adam and Eve.
Page 3
Article 1
"1. All human beings belong to a single species and are descended from a common stock. They are born equal in dignity and rights and all form an integral part of humanity."
That follows the writings of Charles Darwin and should erase racism, but the current LDS writings are headed the other direction.
"5. The differences between the achievements of the different peoples are entirely attributable to geographical, historical, political, economic, social and cultural factors. Such differences can in no case serve as a pretext for any rank-ordered classification of nations or peoples."
Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel goes quite well with the above. But GGS sure destroys the Book of Mormon being a history. Also the unique LDS patriarchal blessing lineages does establish a rank-ordered classification of people.
Article 2
1. Any theory which involves the claim that racial or ethnic groups are inherently superior or inferior, thus implying that some would be entitled to dominate or eliminate others, presumed to be inferior, or which bases value judgements on racial differentiation, has no scientific foundation and is contrary to the moral and ethical
principles of humanity.
Apologist writings about Adam and Eve and cultural groups is very disturbing to me when compared to Article 2 (1) above. So is the patricarchal blessing lineages of Ephraim and Manasseh. One group of people being identified by God's inspired Stake Patriarch to be inherently designated to stand over another people is wrong on all counts.
Mainstream Christianity teaches that all people are adopted into Abraham when they become Christian. Mormon Patriarchs still tell American Indians that they are from a subordinate tribe. And now that the Lamanites are becoming a disappearing thing, where is the revelation about people not from Adam and Eve? Apologists have been permitted to interpret the 1909 First Presidency statement to allow for humans outside of the family of Adam and Eve. Today's Mormonism is not in agreement with the UNESCO declaration on race, and apologists that argue for a Book of Mormon limited geography over the Hemispheric model are making it worse.
| Last year FAIR (read Allen Wyatt, Daniel Peterson, et all) changed their website from "The Mormon Defense League" to "MormonVoices". Most likely as a response to Dallen Oaks cracking down them for being the pompous asses they are.
On January 5, 2012 the following was posted on the God/Man doctrine on MormonVoices:
"Gods of their own planets?
Posted on Jan 5, 2012
There is no Mormon doctrine that says we will become “gods of our own planets.” A search of LDS.org, which includes all of the church lesson manuals, all talks given in church conferences, and all magazines published by the LDS church shows that there are no instances–zero–where it is taught that we will be “gods of our own planets.”
Mormons, along with many other Christian denominations, believe in deification or theosis, based on the teaching that we can become heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).
Little is known, though much might be speculated, about the specific details of our potential under this doctrine. Reducing it to ruling a planet caricatures a profound and complex belief.
The word “planet” makes Mormons seem more like sci-fi enthusiasts than devout Christians. Other Christians, who also believe in theosis or deification, are not ridiculed in this way.
This isn’t just a quibble about semantics. Claims that Mormons hope for their own planets almost always aim to disrespect and marginalize, not to understand or clarify."
Au Contraire.............
These are taken from MORMON DOCTRINES and/or written by Mormon GA or other bigwigs (seers and revelators): TBMs read carefully PLEASE...if you want to deny this, you should burn every copy of every book in the Morg lit.
“Having fought the good fight we then shall be prepared to lay our bodies down to rest to await the morning of the resurrection when they will come forth and be reunited with the spirits, the faithful, as it is said, receiving crowns, glory, immortality and eternal lives, even a fulness with the Father, when Jesus shall present His work to the Father, saying, ‘Father, here is the work thou gavest me to do.’ Then will they become Gods, even the sons of God; then will they become eternal fathers, eternal mothers, eternal sons and eternal daughters; being eternal in their organization they go from glory to glory, from power to power; they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 283; Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876).
4th President Wilford Woodruff
“There are a few individuals in this dispensation who will inherit celestial glory, and a few in other dispensations; but before they receive their exaltation they will have to pass through and submit to whatever dispensation God may decree. But for all this they will receive their reward-they will become Gods, they will inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities and powers through the endless ages of eternity, and to their increase there will be no end, and the heart of man has never conceived of the glory that is in store for the sons and daughters of God who keep the celestial law. (Wilford Woodruff, June 27, 1875, Journal of Discourses 18:39).
10th President Joseph Fielding Smith
“Latter-day Saints believe in this progression in eternity until, eventually, we become worthy through knowledge, wisdom, humility, and obedience, to be like God, and then to have the privilege of being made equal in power, might and dominion (DandC. 76:95), and to possess all that the Father hath (DandC. 84:38) as members of ‘the Church of the First-born’” (10th LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 9).
12th President Spencer W. Kimball
“Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (Spencer W. Kimball, “The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1975, p. 80).
“Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 28. See also Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Religion 430 and 431, p. 52).
Apostles
“If you have been pretty good people and have kept the com¬mandments of God as far as you understood them, and have done well in many respects, you may have the opportunity of becoming angels; but there is quite a difference between angels and those who have the privilege of endless increase, and of being crowned as kings and priests in the eternal worlds” (Orson Pratt, July 11, 1875, Journal of Discourses 18:50).
“In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to his redemption, while yet in his mortal state. Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters; indeed, there will be no end to the increase of his own children: for each father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever and ever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. Thus each God forms a world for the accommodation of his own sons and daughters who are sent forth in their times and seasons, and generations to be born into the same. The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited” (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 37).
“Man is to become a God. The difference between the human and the divine is a matter of education and development. Gods and men are of the same species, and it is just as reasonable that God’s children should attain to the fulness of His spiritual stature, as that man’s children should grow to the fulness of his physical stature. The Son of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Neither need we, His sons and daughters, think it robbery to aspire to that glorious plane where stand God our Father and Jesus Christ, our Elder Brother. He has made it possible for us all to come unto Him and be like Him. He laid down His life to bridge the chasm and enable us to cross it over” (Orson F. Whitney, Collected Discourses 4:132).
“…Mormonism be it true or false, holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp… It teaches men that they can become divine, that man is God in embryo, that God was once man in mortality, and that the only difference between Gods, angels and men is a difference in education and develop¬ment. Is such a religion to be sneered at? It teaches that the worlds on high, the stars that glitter in the blue vault of heaven, are kingdoms of God, that they were once earths like this, that they have Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346. Italics in original. See also Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 305).
DandC 76:58 inhabitants of the CK become gods
DandC 132:17 those who do not abide the law [of celestial marriage] become angels, NOT gods
DandC 132:20, 37 those who receive exaltation are gods, and have no end
DandC 132:37 Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are gods, not angels
| Recently the Mormon Church has backpedaled on doctrine they have had for over 150 years. Mormon men can become Gods in Mormon Heaven and have their own planets.
Here is the change:
"Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2)."
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article...
Here are a few quotes I've collected on the subject:
Men Can Become Gods
DandC 132:20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
"The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood...We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. We will have an endless eternity for this." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48)
"Remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated TO BECOME A FATHER OF AN EARTH YOURSELVES." (Heber C. Kimball, JD 1:356)
"We shall not be idle. We shall go on from one step to another, reaching forth into the eternities until we become like the Gods, and shall be able to frame for ourselves, by the bequest and command of the Almighty. All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and HAVE EARTHS AND WORLDS like those who framed this and millions on millions of others. (Brigham Young, JD 17:143)
Elder Eyring quoted Spencer W. Kimball when he said in 2001:
"Elder Eyring told the young adults that the real life they are preparing for is eternal life. "Secular knowledge has for us eternal significance," he said. "Our conviction is that God our Heavenly Father wants us to live the life that He does. We learn both the spiritual things and the secular things so that we may one day CREATE WORLDS, PEOPLE AND GOVERN THEM."" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 386)
source: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles...
"Mormonism be it true or false, holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp. And so it does... It teaches men that they can become divine, that man is God in embryo, that God was once man in mortality, and that the only difference between Gods, angels and men is a difference in education and development. Is such a religion to be sneered at? It teaches that the worlds on high, the stars that glitter in the blue vault of heaven, are kingdoms of God, that they were once earths like this, that they have been redeemed and glorified by the same laws, the same principles that are applied to this planet, and by which it will ascend to a perfected and glorified state. It teaches that these worlds are peopled with human beings, God's sons and daughters, and that every husband and father, may become an Adam, and every wife and mother an Eve, to some future planet." - Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Divine Evidences of Truthfulness, Y.M.M.I.A. Annual Conference, June 9th, 1895.
President Spencer W. Kimball said in a general priesthood meeting:
Brethren, it is a great thrill to think that we are part of a congregation of 225,000 men and boys. Some of you are a little darker, some of you have slant eyes, but you are all men and brethren, and we love you. We are grateful that you are associated with us tonight in this great meeting.
Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.
Just think of the possibilities, the potential. Every little boy that has just been born becomes an heir to this glorious, glorious program. When he is grown, he meets a lovely woman; they are married in the holy temple. They live all the commandments of the Lord. They keep themselves clean. And then they become sons of God, and they go forward with their great program–they go beyond the angels, beyond the angels and the gods that are waiting there. They go to their exaltation.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1975, p. 120; or Ensign, Nov. 1975, p. 80. See also http://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/11/the-privilege-of-holding-the-priesthood?lang=eng
LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley is also on record as saying:
"On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62); and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become!" - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, October 1994
Spencer Kimball is on record as saying:
"We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were said by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: 'As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.' This is a power available to us as we reach perfection and receive the experience and power to create, to organize, to control native elements. How limited we are now! We have no power to force the grass to grow, the plants to emerge, the seeds to develop." - Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, April 1977
The concept of God being an exalted man has been taught in the LDS Church as recently as 2005 in an official LDS Church publication:
"Many religions teach that human beings are children of God, but often their conception of Him precludes any kind of bond resembling a parent-child relationship. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught of a much simpler and more sensible relationship: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit … was to make himself visible … , you would see him like a man in form–like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another." - Strengthening the Family: Created in the Image of God, Male and Female, The Ensign, Jan. 2005, pg. 48
The LDS Church has taught consistently from the mid-1800s:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. .. God himself, the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ." - The Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 342-345. See also: Gospel Principles, Chapter 47, the official publication of the LDS Church.
"The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man. Brother Kimball quoted a saying of Joseph the Prophet, that he would not worship a God who had not a Father; and I do not know that he would if be had not a mother; the one would be as absurd as the other. If he had a Father, he was made in his likeness. And if he is our Father we are made after his image and likeness. He once possessed a body, as we now do; and our bodies are as much to us, as his body to him. Every iota of this organization is necessary to secure for us an exaltation with the Gods." - Prophet Brigham Young, True Character of God, Salt Lake Tabernacle, February 23, 1862, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.286
"What, is it possible that the Father of Heights, the Father of our spirits, could reduce himself and come forth like a man? Yes, he was once a man like you and I are and was once on an earth like this, passed through the ordeal you and I pass through. He had his father and his mother and he has been exalted through his faithfulness, and he is become Lord of all. He is the God pertaining to this earth. He is our Father. He begot our spirits in the spirit world. They have come forth and our earthly parents have organized tabernacles for our spirits and here we are today. That is the way we came." -Prophet Brigham Young, 14 July 1861, Recorded in "The Essential Brigham Young", p.138
"So the Prophet Joseph Smith, in this age, has added to this truth by the assertion that "As man is God once was, and that as He is man may became," because He is our Father, and like begets like, and inherent within us are the attributes of divinity that shall lead us into perfection, which Christ intended His Saints to attain unto." - Elder Joseph E. Robinson, General Conference, April 1912
"We are His children in Very deed, having been born of Him in the spirit, and we have inherited the very attributes which he possesses. They are in us, and they make us God's embryo, We believe that as we are now God once was, and by the practice of virtue and righteousness, by obedience unto law and authority, He has become what He is, and as He is, man may become, on the same principle." - Elder Goege F. Richards, General Conference, April 1913
"After men have got their exaltations and their crowns -- have become Gods, even the sons of God -- are made Kings of kings and Lords of lords, they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit; and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the organization of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children." Journal of Discourses Volume 6 page 275 --Brigham Young
"I shall have wives and children by the million, and glory, and riches and power and dominion, and kingdom after kingdom, and reign triumphantly" Journal of Discourses Volume 8 pages 178-179 – Brigham Young, Sept 9, 1860.
Gordon B. Hinckley’s backpedaling:
"Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"
"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it." - Gordon
B. Hinckley, Time Magazine, Aug 4, 1997
"Don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?"
"I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." - Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997, p 3/Z1
| "You Chose Your Family In The Pre-Existance" IOW: "You Got What You Asked For."
Wednesday, Nov 21, 2012, at 07:36 AM
Original Author(s): Reasonabledoubt
Topic: MORMON DOCTRINE -Link To MC Article- | ↑ | In the midst of all the "legitimate rape" and "God wanted you to have that rape baby" business going on pre-election I told my wife, that as far as I knew, Mormon doctrine agreed with the God-intended rape-pregnancy line of thinking, as Mormon doctrine says that spirits are chosen/pre-determined specific to the bodies they will be born into.
She gave me the "I'm offended that you'd say that!" consternation, which I think is the standard response to instant-onset cog dis.
The whole pre-existence doctrine makes no logical sense whatsoever, anyway: "So, you're telling me that I used to be a fully developed intelligent being, but that existence was completely unnecessary as it has been wiped from all our memories?"
We might as well have been born both body and spirit (if you believe in spirits) all together for the first time right here on earth, skipping that useless first stage. If God (assuming belief, again) had played his cards right, he could have absolved himself of all responsibility for his spirit children being born in unfair and vastly different circumstances here on earth, simply by letting nature/random selection create us.
But now that you believe in a pre-existence and you realize that birth is now a patently unfair system, you need to devise even more theology claiming people got what they deserved when born -- that blacks/minorities were less valiant in the pre-existence.
Oh wait! That's not politically correct any more. Damn, well, I guess we'll just ignore the logical difficulties of having a coherent pre-existence doctrine and hope that nobody asks any questions of our always answer-less leaders.
So yeah, own that you believe that rape-pregnancies are Gods' will, Mormons -- better yet, start owning all your crazy and contradictory doctrines instead of thinking you can pick and choose to make your comparmentalization convenient.
So, with my NOM (TBM when challenged) wife not sure if the Church has nailed down a solid pre-existence policy, I guess it's something like this:
When you are born Mormon it was part of the pre-existence plan; congratulations on being a Saturdays' Warrior.
All other regular Non-Mormon pregnancies; We're not going to say it anymore, but actually you were kinda' less valiant, and it doesn't have anything to do with skin color -- honest! All Europeans are in this category too, so...
If you were a rape-pregnancy; You were destined to be in the regular Non-Mormon birth category, but anytime there is a rape-pregnancy down there on planet Earth, there is a @#$%and-outta-luck lottery in your category, the loser of which is no longer pre-destined to his original less-valiant location. Destiny changed, sorry sucker!
Anyone got any better theories? lol
| Hi all you newbies. Welcome Mormons! Sit up straight because you will learn something new for a change.
This is my most-requested post and I get lots of requests from people who want to know if there are any space alien beliefs in Mormonism.
I put this together because missionaries many years ago told me there was nothing weird in Mormonism. You be the judge.
By the way, you either have a prophet who speaks to an unchanging God or you do not. You cannot restore something and claim to be "A Restoration of the Original Church" and then start changing things every year. 'Cause then you are not a Restored Church, you are Christianity with a Yearbook.
If you don't see your favorite GA statement, please send it to me. I lost my last set of edits because I switched to Open Source.
Mormon Cosmology - Cult or No Cult?
- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.
- God lives on a giant crystal ball. See DandC 130:6-8.
- God's home planet orbits a star named "Kolob." See Abraham 3:3
- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.
- The Sun "borrows it's light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash.. which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.. and receives light from the revolutions of Kolob." This quote comes directly from the Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 5. Also see: http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-defined.htm
This Mormon site describes correlation between the North Star and Kolob, based on the fact that the big dipper is on the SLC temple, etc: http://www.ldswomenofgod.com/?p=1800
- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"
- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" kingdoms (planets). See DandC 130:9
- God's home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"
- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.
- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163
- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perdition that deny His spirit. This includes all Ex-Mormons. See "The Creation," page 146 and DandC 101:90-91
- The light of Christ is the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See DandC 88:7. (The "light" refered to may very well be literal, as well as figurative and symbolic, speaking about Christ's influence.)
- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.
mormon-scienceCreation
- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 350-352.
- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5, 6:51 and Endowment Ceremony.
- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, all of us helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, we created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. See Abraham 3:22-24, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 74-75.
- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradicts the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third day (creation of life, vegetation and seeds) and fourth day (creation of light, moon and stars) of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, whereas Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).
- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).
- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference. Taught by LDS Church apostle during stake fireside, but still need reference.
Extra-Terrestrials
- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article "People on Other Worlds" April 1971.
- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Pearl of Great Price, but UFO connection made by LDS Church Seminary teacher. Still need reference.
- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/e... for many scriptural and Joseph Smith prophetic references.
- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See DandC 110:11 and 133:26.
- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. See Moses 7:36
- God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Common teaching from LDS Church Seminary teachers, but still need reference.
- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Christ's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth. See November 1985 Ensign "Is Jesus Christ the Savior of all the worlds God created or just ours?"
- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Supposedly came from early church conference address by church apostle, but still need reference.
- God created all the planets in our solar system with the explicit "law" to support human life. The other planets in our solar system are already populated or are able to support human life. See "The Essential Orson Pratt, p.373"
- Lucifer only did to Adam and Eve "the same thing which has been done in "OTHER WORLDS," according to the temple endowment. This shows Mormon doctrine embraces the idea of life on other planets.
- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919
Mormon Physics
- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See DandC 131:7.
- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.
- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See DandC 61:13-19
- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Begotten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is supposedly from ther church's official publication "Jesus the Christ" but is often taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 15:232
Other Dimensions
- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-existence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spiritual awareness. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- God lives in the fourth dimension, which explains why he can see everything, be everywhere and know all time. In fact, as three-dimensional beings, if we could visit flatland (a two-dimensional universe) the inhabitants would think we were Gods. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. Mormon folklore, source reference needed.
Time and Time Travel
- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Very common Mormon belief, source reference needed.
- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5
- God lives by "celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit" See Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 1.
- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See Abraham 5:13
- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See DandC 130:10-11
- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31
- A righteous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the DandC 122:9.
- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, pp. 64, 65).
- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham. Also see DandC 101:32-34.
- The earth's lifetime is divided into "dispensations" of time. The correct name for our current dispensation of time is "Adam-ondi-Ahman" which Joseph Smith explained to mean "The place or land of God where Adam dwelt." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 19-20)
Geology
- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existence is 7,000 years. See DandC 77:6
- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are righteous enough. This was preached from the pulpit at the Tabernacle by the Prophet of the Church. See Journal of Discourses 1:264.
- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Carbon dating is phony because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)
- Prophet preaches from the Tabernacle pulpit in General Conference that "Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head, or the wheat in the field.." See JoD 1:209.
Mormon Biology
- Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall. Blood is the life of the mortal body." After Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, blood became "the life-giving fluid in Adam's body, and was inherited by his posterity. Blood was not only the life of the mortal body, but also contained in it the seeds of death which bring the mortal body to its end. Previously the life force in Adam's body, which is likewise the sustaining power in every immortal body, was the spirit." - Joseph Fielding Smith, Man: His Origin and Destiny (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954), pp. 362, 376-77.
- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more pure blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Adam did not have a navel, Eve did. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Mormonism directly explains the creation of at least one race by God. Mormon scripture taught that Cain was so evil, God cursed him and his lineage with black skin, creating the African race. See Moses 7:22. Mormon Doctrine explains: "Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." Mormon Doctrine, Page 102.
- When Native Americans become Mormons, their skin turns white. The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught the principle of this process in a General Conference address. He stated how the "Indians are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation... These young [Indian] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." LDS General Conference, October 1960, Spencer W. Kimball, (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). Also see the original Mormon prophesy of this effect in 2 Nephi 30:6.
- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).
- All races, including Blacks, Asians, Indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white Caucasians. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon, Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17
- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. See LDS Church News Archives, Saturday, January 15, 2000, "Resurrection is a priesthood ordinance. 'As to how the dead are raised, we know that it is by the power of Jesus Christ because He holds the keys of death, hell, and resurrection,' said Brother Matthews. '. . . President Brigham Young and Elder Erastus Snow taught that the resurrection will be conducted much as other things are done in the kingdom, by those in authority and by delegation.'"
- Resurrected bodies do not have blood but instead rely on the spirit to stay alive. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Our Father in heaven and our Savior and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body is quickened by blood... . Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject t o death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creations." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 76-77).
| NIV- missing verses
I would be interested in seeing specific examples of what this person feels are the issues but, in general, it is well known that the NIV represents a much cleaner text of the Bible than what is found in the King James. This comes down, primarily, to the translators of the NIV having far superior manuscripts of the Bible to work with than what the King James translators had.
I'll try to give some background and hopefully won't be too verbose. We obviously don't have the original writings of the Bible, but instead have to rely on various manuscripts of the OT and NT written in various places at various times. The earliest Bible manuscripts likely date to the second century. We have complete codices of the Bible starting around the 4th century.All of these are copies from earlier manuscripts, and when you have copies you start to accumulate errors in the text. Most of these errors are minor things like misspellings or skipping words/lines of text. There are handful of errors, however, that were quite deliberate. These errors are made by scribes who are trying to harmonize the text of the Bible. They might do things like change a passage in Matthew to better agree with Luke, scrub a passage that conflicted with Orthodoxy, or add verbiage to support a pet dogma. Oftentimes scribes would be faced with a situation where they had two Bible manuscripts for the same passage but where eachhad a different reading. In this case, scribes would often try to blend the two variants together.
As a result, by the time the 1500s roll around you have a very large number of Bible manuscripts that can potentially have numerous differences. In an attempt to remedy this, scholars started trying to produce critical editions -- texts of the Bible in the original languages that they felt best represented the original text. One of the most famous is a manuscript called the Textus Receptus ("Received Text") which was composed by a Dutch scholar named Deiderus Erasmus. Erasmus' text generally (though not always) makes the assumption that the best reading is the one that occurs most frequently across manuscripts. In general, however, this method tends to favor manuscripts produced later in history that also tend to be further removed from the earlier manuscripts.
The Textus Receptus is what the King James translators used. As such, there is a lot of accumulated junk in the KJV that is NOT part of what the original Bible manuscripts had. Here are some big examples:
The Story of the Woman Taken in Adultery (John 8): This entire story is not originally part of the Gospel of John. It is missing in all of the early manuscripts, uses vocabulary that is starkly different from the rest of John's Gospel, and actually breaks up a story that flows together beautifully otherwise. The NIV still includes this story, but notes that it is not found in the important ancient manuscripts.
The Doxology to the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 5): This the "for thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory" part of the Lord's prayer. It is also absent in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. Various versions of the Doxology start to creep into the manuscript tradition starting in the second century. The full blown version in the King James finally comes into existence around 400 AD.
The Longer Ending to Mark (Mark 16): Mark's gospel originally ended in verse 8, with the woman at the tomb being "very afraid". The ending was super abrupt, and nobody liked it, so folks started coming up with smoother endings as time went on. The full version with Jesus talking about handling snakes and so on is of much later date than the earliest copies of Mark that we have.
Interestingly enough for RFM readers, Joseph Smith never got any of these things right when making the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. Additionally, the last two examples show up in the Book of Mormon, showing how the author of Book of Mormon is quite dependent on the King James version of the Bible when writing the Book of Mormon.
After the King James, scholars realized that the way that they were arriving at the most authentic text of the Bible was incorrect and began to develop better methods for coming through manuscripts and getting at the most original reading. There is an entire branch of scholarship called Biblical textual criticism that aims to answer these questions. Since the late 1800s we have a much better idea of how the original OT and NT look and modern translations of the Bible reflect this.
The NIV (also the NRSV, ESV, etc) is, without a doubt, a much more faithful representation of the what the original authors of the Bible said than what the King James gives us. Still, you have many groups like the LDS and certain strains of fundamentalist Christianity that have deified the King James and feel that any departure from the KJV is tantamount to heresy. In the case of the LDS, much of their doctrine is based on bogus King James verses, and so they really are trapped. By accepting modern scholarship they would throw their own doctrine under a bus.
If anyone is interested in learning more about this, there are some excellent books that are perfect for lay people. My favorite is "The Text of the New Testament" by Bruce Metzger and Bart Ehrman. Ehrman's "The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture" is also quite good, though a bit sensational at some points.
| Hi all you newbies and welcome naughty Mormons! Sit up straight because you will learn something new for a change.
This is my most-requested post and I get lots of requests from people who want to know if there are any space alien beliefs in Mormonism.
Thinking of joining the LDS Church? I put this together because missionaries many years ago told me there was nothing weird in Mormonism. You be the judge.
If you don't see your favorite GA statement, please send it to me. I lost my last set of edits because I switched to Open Source. Feel free to suggest any quotes you feel belong here. I am also looking for a few good citations on some of the quotes.
MORMON COSMOLOGY
- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.
- God lives on a giant crystal ball. See DandC 130:6-8.
- God's home planet orbits a star named "Kolob." See Abraham 3:3
- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.
- The Sun "borrows it's light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash.. which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.. and receives light from the revolutions of Kolob." This quote comes directly from the Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 5. Also see: http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-defi...
This Mormon site describes correlation between the North Star and Kolob, based on the fact that the big dipper is on the SLC temple, etc: http://www.ldswomenofgod.com/?p=1800
- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"
- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" kingdoms (planets). See DandC 130:9
- God's home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"
- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.
- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163
- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perdition that deny His spirit. This includes all Ex-Mormons. See "The Creation," page 146 and DandC 101:90-91
- The light of Christ is the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See DandC 88:7. (The "light" refered to may very well be literal, as well as figurative and symbolic, speaking about Christ's influence.)
- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.
mormon-scienceCreation
- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 350-352.
- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5, 6:51 and Endowment Ceremony.
- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, all of us helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, we created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. See Abraham 3:22-24, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 74-75.
- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradicts the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third day (creation of life, vegetation and seeds) and fourth day (creation of light, moon and stars) of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, whereas Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).
- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).
- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference. Taught by LDS Church apostle during stake fireside, but still need reference.
Extra-Terrestrials
- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article "People on Other Worlds" April 1971.
- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Pearl of Great Price, but UFO connection made by LDS Church Seminary teacher. Still need reference.
- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/e... for many scriptural and Joseph Smith prophetic references.
- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See DandC 110:11 and 133:26.
- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. See Moses 7:36
- God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Common teaching from LDS Church Seminary teachers, but still need reference.
- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Christ's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth. See November 1985 Ensign "Is Jesus Christ the Savior of all the worlds God created or just ours?"
- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Supposedly came from early church conference address by church apostle, but still need reference.
- God created all the planets in our solar system with the explicit "law" to support human life. The other planets in our solar system are already populated or are able to support human life. See "The Essential Orson Pratt, p.373"
- Lucifer only did to Adam and Eve "the same thing which has been done in "OTHER WORLDS," according to the temple endowment. This shows Mormon doctrine embraces the idea of life on other planets.
- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919
Mormon Physics
- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See DandC 131:7.
- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.
- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See DandC 61:13-19
- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Begotten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is supposedly from ther church's official publication "Jesus the Christ" but is often taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 15:232
Other Dimensions
- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-existence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spiritual awareness. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.
- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. Mormon folklore, source reference needed.
Time and Time Travel
- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Very common Mormon belief, source reference needed.
- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5
- God lives by "celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit" See Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 1.
- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See Abraham 5:13
- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See DandC 130:10-11
- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31
- A righteous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the DandC 122:9.
- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, pp. 64, 65).
- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham. Also see DandC 101:32-34.
- The earth's lifetime is divided into "dispensations" of time. The correct name for our current dispensation of time is "Adam-ondi-Ahman" which Joseph Smith explained to mean "The place or land of God where Adam dwelt." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 19-20)
Geology
- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existence is 7,000 years. See DandC 77:6
- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are righteous enough. This was preached from the pulpit at the Tabernacle by the Prophet of the Church. See Journal of Discourses 1:264.
- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Carbon dating is phony because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)
- Prophet preaches from the Tabernacle pulpit in General Conference that "Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head, or the wheat in the field.." See JoD 1:209.
Mormon Biology
- Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall. Blood is the life of the mortal body." After Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, blood became "the life-giving fluid in Adam's body, and was inherited by his posterity. Blood was not only the life of the mortal body, but also contained in it the seeds of death which bring the mortal body to its end. Previously the life force in Adam's body, which is likewise the sustaining power in every immortal body, was the spirit." - Joseph Fielding Smith, Man: His Origin and Destiny (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954), pp. 362, 376-77.
- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more pure blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Adam did not have a navel, Eve did. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Mormonism directly explains the creation of at least one race by God. Mormon scripture taught that Cain was so evil, God cursed him and his lineage with black skin, creating the African race. See Moses 7:22. Mormon Doctrine explains: "Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." Mormon Doctrine, Page 102.
- When Native Americans become Mormons, their skin turns white. The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught the principle of this process in a General Conference address. He stated how the "Indians are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation... These young [Indian] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." LDS General Conference, October 1960, Spencer W. Kimball, (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). Also see the original Mormon prophesy of this effect in 2 Nephi 30:6.
- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).
- All races, including Blacks, Asians, Indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white Caucasians. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.
- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon, Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17
- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. See LDS Church News Archives, Saturday, January 15, 2000, "Resurrection is a priesthood ordinance. 'As to how the dead are raised, we know that it is by the power of Jesus Christ because He holds the keys of death, hell, and resurrection,' said Brother Matthews. '. . . President Brigham Young and Elder Erastus Snow taught that the resurrection will be conducted much as other things are done in the kingdom, by those in authority and by delegation.'"
- Resurrected bodies do not have blood but instead rely on the spirit to stay alive. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Our Father in heaven and our Savior and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body is quickened by blood... . Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creations." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 76-77).
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