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THOMAS S. MONSON
Thomas S. Monson, current Mormon Prophet. His talks are full of triple-intransitives and ubiquitous alliteration of how he ends each sentence by extending the last word on a downward glissade.
| As Son and Heir posted a story about Tom Monson's birthday cake and the First Presidency, I thought I would share my Tom Monson story.
I served in the mission office for one of the current apostles. Because my family is TBM LDS, I prefer not to be more specific about this and other personal details. As a missionary, I met Elder Monson several times and was responsible for arranging for him several newspaper interviews. I witnessed firsthand his almost superhuman memory and soft spot for elderly sisters. He remembered members he had met in the distant past, greeting them by name. It was amazing.
Someone in the know (it could have been my mission president), related how Monson had manipulated the exclusion of President Tanner from a major media event so he could be the center of attention. This was the only negative impression at that time.
At BYU, I roomed with the son of the secretary to the Quorum of Twelve. He related many GA stories. These confirm what Son and Heir and others have related concerning Brother Tom. He is insufferably demanding and insensitive.
After graduation, I went to work for a stock brokerage firm in SLC. I introduced myself to the controller of a major company owned by the LDS Church and convinced him to invest their considerable excess cash in preferred bonds. My recommendation had not been made by any of the other numerous financial advisors competing for the business and the controller was prepared to give me the business. First, though, he had to present my idea to the board, which was chaired by Elder Monson.
Well, Elder Monson had a relationship with one of the top brokers in my office, who either was, or had been, a stake president. Monson approved the transaction, but asked that the business be given to the other broker. When my branch manager broke the news to me, I was heartsick. It seemed so unfair, as our firm, and this other broker, would never have gotten the business if I hadn't come up with the idea and pursued the opportunity. I was expected to step aside and concede the business and relationship to the other broker. As a concession, he gave me half of the commission on the first transaction. Ironically, he stuck it to the Church and his mark-up was more than twice what mine would have been. However, there was so much more business to come that this was little consolation to me.
At the time, I was a young father of two and a faithful Elders Quorum President. I was trying to establish my securities practice and this was my first significant break. I couldn't imagine that Elder Monson would deprive me and my family of my just reward, so I decided to contact him. As you can imagine, I was tentative, as I realized how insignificant I was in the scheme of things. However, you will never get very far in the investment world if you are passive and I was determined not to acquiesce without a fight. Somehow I got his phone number (I think it was in the directory) and with considerable apprehension dialed. He answered and I quickly introduced myself and explained my predicament. I mentioned that I had worked with him in the mission field and I was an active Latter-day Saint. I knew the probability of him redirecting the business to me was low, but I thought I would get some sympathy at the very least. Instead, he asked me if my branch manager knew what I was up to. He then threatened to shiftthe business to a competitor. I hastily apologized for my impertinence and ended the call.
His response mortified me. It wasn't so much that he had treated me with utter indifference, but that my livelihood was in jeopardy. The blow was worse than the one my branch manager delivered initially. It was one thing to lose a big deal, and another to lose my job altogether!
I was deeply offended at Elder Monson's callousness and coldness. His warning was calculated to put me in my place. I felt very insignificant and vulnerable. The injustice of the situation and his response offended me deeply. It didn't affect my testimony of the Church, but it sure destroyed any confidence in him. My experience confirmed for me his hypocrisy. He is all platitudes. There is no substance, only self-engrandizement. Although I'm inactive and non-believing, I still wish Church members well and shudder to think of Tom Monson as their leader. Hinckley is a moral giant compared to Monson.
You know what's almost scary? His memory is so incredible, if someone relates this post to him he just may remember the incident and be able to identify who I am through inference. Guess my decision about whether to remain on the books will be taken from me. Well, Tom, they say the best revenge is living well. I wouldn't trade my life for yours for all the hokey anecdotes in the world! Your punishment is having to live with yourself.
| How do you spread a faith-promoting falsehood while not verbally lying?
When Tom Monson was worshipping JS this morning, he talked about the miraculous translation of the BOM that took place in under 90 days. To further the idea that the translation was miraculous, he showed a painting of Joseph Smith dictating from the plates by candlelight. Oliver Cowdery is sitting on the other side of the table, his view of the golden plates unobstructed as he transcribed.
Where do these guys get off showing something they know to be false. Lying for the Lord?
I'd love to share my feelings with TBM DW, but I want to be 100 percent sure that the painting is an egregious lie. I found this excellent page, but I'd be interested to know if there are any accounts of anyone being able to see the plates while they were "translated" or of anyone seeing JS translate straight from the plates. (I don't often air my beefs with DW, so I want to make sure this one counts.)
| Thomas S. Monson, The Prophet Joseph Smith: Teacher by Example http://lds.org/conference/talk/disp.....
Monson is one of the story-tellers, and he has a very nice, soft, calm, kind voice. It used to make him my favorite conference speaker. Now I know that the calm voice causes trust, and the stories cause people to dissociate, to relate to the characters. It draws them outside of awareness and dampens their critical thinking skills. This in and of itself isn't bad, and is used for entertainment and education in many media (there it is known as "suspension of disbelief"). However, when coupled with deception, emotional traps, guilt-inducement, self-abasement, reframing, and other mental tricks, it constitutes mind control.
The overarching theme of this talk is learning by example. One aspect of mind control is "change the behavior first and the beliefs will follow". Many dictates of cult groups are not expressly commanded or written. New members learn behaviors by watching fellow members while trying to "fit in". Implied morals underlie stories. A new member will match these expected behaviors to avoid embarrassment and to find approval, even if they don't yet believe or even understand the specific teachings behind the behaviors. But after time, they come to believe because they have acted first.
Monson begins with a well-known story about an operation on Joseph Smith's leg during childhood. The doctors suggest tying down Joseph's arms so he won't thrash, but Joseph refuses. They offer alcohol to ease the pain. Joseph also refuses. He undergoes the operation without any fuss, and his leg was miraculously cured.
From this, Monson says we should learn courage. But instead, we learn it is good suffer, even when relief is available. If Joseph could do it, so can we. This is an example of "doctrine over self".
Next, he tells the story of the First Vision. He only tells the authorized version. Members are oblivious to the fact that there are multiple conflicting First Vision stories. There are also historical facts surrounding this story which are contradictory. For example, Monson relays that there was a religious revival in New England in the 1820s, which is also not true. There were revivals in 1816-1817 and later in 1823-1824. This is an act of ongoing deception regarding Church history.
Monson tells us that JS stuck to his story, even in the face of persecution. The moral of this story? Ironically, Monson says it's "honesty". This is an example of double-speak.
Then he talks about missionary work. Cults are preoccupied with bringing in new members, and this is yet another reminder.
Monson tells of the martyrdom. JS was arrested on "trumped up charges". He acted selflessly by running to the window, in the hopes of saving the others, thereby giving his life for them. From this, Monson thinks we should learn love.
Aside from the historical controversy over just what happened that day, we're expected to believe that JS's running for his life was a selfless sacrifice. This seems to me an obvious deception. We can't conclude either way what his motive was, but the most likely explanation is that he fled out of fear, not love.
Monson claims 12 million members believe JS to be a prophet of God. This is another deception, as at least 50% of those members are disbelieving inactives, who don't even feel it necessary to claim "LDS" on the census survey.
He is also hinting that this is "proof" that JS was a Prophet. As the saying goes, "12 million people can't be wrong". But 12 million people certainly can, and have been wrong about a great many things. If we go by number of votes to prove the truth of something, then Islam is more true that Mormonism, with 1.2 billion followers.
Then he tells a story of two missionaries he knew while serving as Mission President in Canada. These missionaries were told by a homeowner to never return. One missionary took, "You can't tell me you really believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, anyway!" as an open invitation to go back immediately, and bear his testimony that JS really was a prophet.
The man yelled at them again, but later converted -- after a sleepless night and a phrase from the missionary's testimony repeated in his head, "Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know it . . . I know it. . . . I know it."
Through this type of story, members learn that personal boundaries are unimportant. Bringing people into the fold (or keeping them there) is justification for ignoring the earnest requests of fellow human beings. It is no wonder that ex-members report time and time again that ward and family members pester them, even after making it perfectly clear that their attention is unwelcome. This is an example of "The ends justify the means", a very common underlying cult philosophy.
I also have to wonder about the psychological effects involved in this man's conversion. Unfortunately, this is going to require more study on my part.
Monson then quotes the famous saying by John Taylor, "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it." This is a form of elitism for the religion itself. It places JS on a pedestal, and makes Mormonism The One True Church. It sets up us-vs-them thinking, and calls forth further dedication and devotion to all of JS's works -- and his heirs, the current leadership of the Church.
He concludes with a testimony, comprised mainly of a request that we learn from JS's life, incorporate his principles into our own lives, and that our lives reflect our knowledge that God lives, Jesus Christ is his son, that JS was a prophet, and that today we're lead by GBH.
This is actually more of a prayer than a testimony. He's giving us a couple of subtle suggestions. First, that we take this entire talk (and everything else we know about JS, all good of course) to heart and live by it (modify our behavior to lead away from authentic self to match the group self). Secondly, he's implying that every listener *already has a testimony*, by requesting that our lives reflect it. He doesn't say "reflect our beliefs", he says, "reflect our knowledge". This is a great example of persuasive influence used after other methods have softened the brain.
So that's my analysis of the first Sunday talk. I might do more later.
| I had no doubt that Gordon B. Hinckley ran things as prophet because he ran things when Hunter, Benson, and Kimball (In his later years) were prophets. Once Hinckley was the top man we saw many changes in the church. The prophet hired a Madison Avenue PR agency and got major media exposure as a result. The prophet flew around on Gulfstream V jets instead of commercial air. The church has taken the money out of the wards and has centralized the control of it in Salt Lake. The church has spent the largest amount of money ever under Hinckley.
Hinckley to me was all about centralizing control of the church not allowing local church leaders any responsibility over budgets or policy. Hinckley sucked anything fun and good out of the wards and focused on rebuilding Nauvoo and other historical sites. Building a ton of new temples. Building an expensive Conference Center. Anything that was visable and got attention Hinckley was into it.
The church started to take on a flavor of being more a corporation than a religiouse organization under Hinckley. In my oppinion, the man sucked the life blood out of the church activity and youth program wise.
When Hinckley dies, this will leave a huge power vaccume in the church. Like all big organizations, there are people in power of each division who will entrench themselves and may not work with the new boss.
Thomas S. Monson to me seems like the typical "yes" man. He gives his inspiring talks and that's about it. I really don't see the guy working with the church's accounting and legal departments and micro managing like Hinckley did. I think Monson will just let the church run itself as is while he visits the saints and talks about how the home teachers reactivated an inactive family or how an aronic priesthood holder saved a poor old widow.
I guess the church can go on as long as it has the money to do so regardless of who the prophet is. Everyone who really runs things is entrenched and does their job. Things really don't change until a Gordon B. Hinckley comes around and has to shake things up and do things differently. For him it was about building a legacy for himself and trying to make Mormonism mainstream.
I think Hinckley failed miserably in his goals. Nothing he spent all those billions of dollars on is inspiring. Most of the new temples are ugly and when I look at the list of them, it's like looking at the locations of Pizza Hut franchises or something. The Conference Center is a big, ugly, confusing heap of grey granite. Most people seem dissapointed in it when they visit it. The only decent building Hinckley built was the Nauvoo temple. But Joseph Smith will get the credit for that one.
Hinckley's legacy will fade away amazingly soon. Why? Thomas S. Monson will be a very likeable prophet. The members might even like Monson more than Hinckley.
Be prepared for a happy go lucky Monson smiling and shaking hands with the saints as Boyd K. Packer and Russell M. Ballard invade the bedroom even more.
Maybe nobody really runs the church. Who has the power to shut the whole thing down is the members themselves. But for some reason, these people still continue to pray, pay, and obey and keep the organization going. Some of the leaders are invisable and some are visable. Some like to kiss babies and shake hands like a politician and others like to guilt trip the members and call them to repentance.
As long as the members are willing to put up with the control the organization wields over them and their families, it sadly will go on.
| I've told this story before, but it bears repeating because it's such a wonderful example of poetic justice.
Every year we would have a Christmas banquet on the 25th floor, where they would usually serve stuff leftover from the building cafeteria (one year they had more fried stuffed jalapenos than I've ever seen). The GAs in charge of each department attended the banquet. The food was good, but the entertainment usually consisted of volunteers from the department, meaning it was about what you'd expect from a ward talent show. I think the banquets have since been "discontinued."
We shared our floor in the building with the typesetters and translation folks, and one year, they came back from their banquet with quite a story. First Presidency member Thomas Monson had attended their banquet. For the entertainment portion, Monson was brought up to a chair in front of everyone, and then some music started: Madonna's cover of "Santa Baby." Two young secretaries dressed in spandex elf costumes came out, lip-synching to the song. They put a Santa hat on Monson, sat on his lap, pinched his cheeks, and in general acted in a manner entirely inappropriate to one of the Lord's anointed.
Monson smiled gamely throughout, though he looked distinctly uncomfortable. The next morning, the executive director of the department was summoned to Monson's office and raked over the coals. Firings were threatened, outrage was expressed, and apologies were demanded. One of my friends, who was a font designer, told me that one of the secretaries involved was seen sobbing at her desk that day.
But still, just the mental image of Monson sitting up there is one of my fondest memories from working there.
| This month President Monson titled his article, "The Peril of Hidden Wedges". It is a good article encouraging us to forgive, to change, and to repair our lives so that we will be strong enough to weather the storms of life. For the most part I think he gives good advice.
But it makes me upset that he can say this while he leaves hidden wedges in the church. Does he not realize that it is difficult for everyone who has a hidden wedge to remove it? He seems to imply that for others it should be simple. I am reminded of the Japanese following WWII the emperor, as part of the treaty agreement, had to announce to all of his people that he was not deity. It was absolutely devastating to his people. They had fought a war for him, and lost. And now they learned that it was in vain. Ultimately, for the Japanese this became an opportunity that they were able to grow from. And they did until they became one the strongest economic capitals of the world.
I am sure that among those who read this post others will have other experiences that they have personally been a part of or witnessed where someone had to admit fault and it was very challenging.
The LDS church has the papyrus scrolls. They have had many educated scholars look at these and verify each others translations of them. And from this they know that Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Abraham from them as he claimed.
This is one of the hidden wedges that the church should try to remove and be honest with. It is much easier for President Monson to teach that someone else should remove theirs, than it is for him to lead by example and do it for himself and the church.
Does he not realize that the process for anyone to forgive someone who hurt them is very difficult? And in some cases near impossible.
He sits there writing this article telling others to fix their life by doing the near impossible to forgive, to change, and to repair the damage done by having this wedge in their life (and I feel he is correct in encouraging this kind of action) but he is not taking the initiative to set things right in the church where it has been wrong in the past. Thus leaving a wedge in the church that will ultimately compromise its strength to the point of collapse.
It would be terrifically difficult to admit a fault of this magnitude. It would compromise the church in ways never before seen in the existence of this church. But there is good to be found in the church and from this it could grow to become an excellent institution. It would start a change in the church that would be enormous and painful for most of its active members but in the end it could evolve into a far greater church that doesn’t suppress its people and has a better outreach of help to those in need.
As in most situations they will have to eventually either remove this wedge as well as others or be destroyed by the storms in life. If they are eventually forced to do it the damage already done may be too great to ever recover from. So it is my hope that a leader will eventually have the moral courage to take this and other problems on even with the knowledge that it could destroy the very existence of the church.
| Bravo, Tommy, Bravo!
I caught your conference speech earlier today while flipping between cooking programs.
May I say it was a classic? A stellar piece of Monsonaila, a Monsonion performance par exellance! Not a stone was left unturned, nor a cliche unuttered, in your moving recounting of the story of Teresa Patterson and her boy Arthur, a lad as tall as tree, as strong as the mountains and with a smile as big as the great outdoors! How you and your school chums idolized him! How golden were his curly locks! (Golden as the sun, if I recall, correctly.) How stalwart was his spirit!
Yes, in those dark days of the late 1940's, when that trouble over in Europe had just turned into the battle known as World War II, young Arthur, an overgrown lad, was moved to enlist in the United State's Navy! So strong were his limbs (I think they were as strong as a horse or an ox) and so tall was his stature (as noted before, tall like a tree) that the recruitment office had no inkling he was a mere 15 years old (a stripling warrior, indeed. Hey, Tommy, how did you miss that reference?)!!!
To cut to the chase---after all, I could never tell it quite as movingly as you did with your truncated arm and hand gestures and vocal emphasis dancing between the ingenuous, the naive, the incredulous, and sometimes, the scary---stalwart, tall, strong and idolized Arthur was killed. Leaving his mother, a hard-working widow, deep in grief. So deep in her despair was this hard-working widow woman with hands coarsened by her endless labor as a cleaning woman in a downtown office building (in those days, one could often see her, pail and mop in hand, bent over from her back-breaking wearying troubles, struggling to make her way to the bus stop) that she turned to you, saying, "Tommy, for that is what she called you, Tommy, I have no church. But you, you believe. Tell me, will I ever see my precious Arthur again?"
And so you bore your testimony to her that, yes, she would indeed be reunited with her darling, tall, yellow-haired and brave son. For you had assurance from your lord and savior, even Jesus Christ (btw, Tommy, I've always wondered about the rhetorical elocution "even, Jesus Christ." It seems so...faux archaic, so fakey King James, so...oh, never mind).
And just as you were impressed to tell this story in General Conference on April 9th, 1969---when not having seen dear Mrs. Patterson for many years, and she having moved to California in the meantime and having been invited by member friends to watch that session of conference, none of them knowing that you were speaking nor what the topic of your talk would be, and it was no accident that she heard you tell this moving story and was moved to get in touch with you, writing, "Dear Tommy, I hope you don't mind me calling you Tommy, but that is what I like to call you," and other things----you were impressed to tell this story today.
So relentlessly did you repeat every agonizingly minor detail of this story, again and again, that even a listener of severe mental impairment would be able to grasp your message: Arthur dead. And yet the dead live!
What a great story for Halloween-time! I'm sure the subtle hint of Zombie-ism found in the tale of Arthur the dead boy who will return, was not lost on you. In fact, I am certain that is why you were impressed to retell it during October General Conference, where it would connect with the current holiday season, just like you were impressed to initially tell it in April for the Easter tie-in.
(btw, your self-deprecating chuckles are SO much more self-deprecating than Packer's. Man, when he tries to "be human" he comes off like a cackling vampire. Hmmm...more Halloween hijinks?)
| I always trusted the General Authorities. They were chosen by God, and I loved them. I felt like I knew them, like they were my brothers, or friends. I felt a kinship with them. I adored Thomas Monson. Then he betrayed me.
I had gotten married in the temple and 9 months later had my first child. I was so overjoyed, and even more thrilled when I was pregnant with my second. The baby was so wanted. We loved him before he was born. We named him, dreamed about him. I was 21.
Four months into the pregnany, the doctor told me at a routine visit that my baby had passed away. No idea why, but he was gone. I had to wait a week to see if he would miscarry naturally, but he did not. I had to have a traumatic procedure to finish the pregnancy. I was utterly devestated and depressed, and cried for weeks for my baby.
The only peace I had about it came from "knowing" that I would have my baby again someday, in the Celestial Kingdom. He was sealed to us because we were sealed in the temple. I focused on my baby being in heaven, waiting for me, and I held onto that thread of hope to pull me out of my depression.
But then I read something that Brigham Young said. He had written in one of his discourses that the spirit enters an unborn child at the time of "quickening," which is when the mother first feels the baby move. I had never felt my baby move! I was absolutely sick over the thought that maybe my baby never had a spirit. Maybe he WASN'T going to be waiting for me in the Celestial kingdom. Maybe he wasn't even real, or alive....
I sobbed and prayed. My husband didn't know how to console me. No one but my husband even knew I had been pregnant. No one in the ward knew yet, and I didn't want anyone to know. So I decided to write to Thomas Monson and ask him if my baby had a spirit or not, and if I would ever see him again, or not.
He was a member of the first Presidency, and whenever I heard him speak I felt so inspired. I loved Monson. He was so compassionate. I had complete faith he would tell me the truth and I would accept it. I waited and waited for the letter to come. But instead, I got a call into the Bishop's office. No explanation, just, "the Bishop needs to see you and your husband."
We went in and the bishop had something in his hand. He opened it up. It was MY LETTER. It was the handwritten, personal letter I had sent to Monson. My husband didn't even know I had written to him! The Bishop seemed VERY uncomfortable. He said, "I have a letter here from President Monson. I am not allowed to give it to you, but I am supposed to read it to you." He hesitated, looked at the floor, said uneasily, "you're not supposed to write to the general authorities..." I was stunned. I sat, waiting. Finally he read the letter to my husband and I. It said something like, We really don't have any way of knowing whether or not there was a spirit in your baby. So just have faith, everything will be okay. And next time please seek the cousel of your local bishopric.
The Bishop closed the letter and put it away. He put my letter away, too. I felt so exposed...let down...betrayed. The Bishop offered me counseling. I said no thanks, and left. My husband, in the car, said (astounded), "You WROTE to president Monson??? What were you thinking?"
I was thinking he cared about me. I was thinking he spoke for God, and could find this answer for a deperate grieving mother. I was thinking he would keep a confidence. I was thinking he was inspired and he loved me. I was wrong, about all of it.
I will never forget what that did to me.
| || Monson, God, The Weather, A Murderer And A Temple - What Does This All Mean? |
Monday, Feb 11, 2008, at 07:56 AM
Original Author(s): Odell Campbell
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Today, Thomas Monson dedicated the Rexburg, Idaho LDS temple, his first official act as the new LDS president. The dedication was delayed as a result of poor weather conditions.
The LDS owned Deseret Morning News reported:
“Church officials said dense fog prevented his plane from arriving in Rexburg as scheduled, and the cloud-cover hampered travel for thousands of Latter-day Saints who gathered at the site and in LDS stake centers around the area.”
“The first of four dedicatory services, schedule to begin at 9 a.m., was delayed for about 30 minutes as President Monson's entourage drove through the fog from Pocatello, where the plane was forced to land.”
Monson, as a previous member of the LDS First Presidency, was key in negotiating permission for East German LDS young people to leave that Communist nation for church missions. Monson described his 1988 meeting with then Chairman Erich Honecker:
“Then it was back to Berlin for the crucial meetings with the head of the nation, even Chairman Erich Honecker.”
“That special morning the sunlight bathed the city of Berlin. It had been raining all night, but now beauty prevailed. We were driven to the chambers of the chief representatives of the government.”
Beyond the exquisite entry to the building, we were greeted by Chairman Honecker. We presented to him the statuette First Step, depicting a mother helping her child take its first step toward its father. He was highly pleased with the gift. He then escorted us into his private council room. There, around a large round table, we were seated. Others at the table included Chairman Honecker and his deputies of government.”
“Chairman Honecker then spoke for perhaps thirty minutes, describing his objectives and viewpoints and detailing the progress made by his nation. At length, he smiled and addressed me and the group, saying, “We know you. We trust you. We have had experience with you. Your missionary request is approved.”
My spirit literally soared out of the room. The meeting was concluded. As we left the beautiful government chambers, Elder Russell Nelson turned to me and said, “Notice how the sunshine is penetrating this hall. It’s almost as though our Heavenly Father is saying, ‘I am pleased.’ ”
(Source: Thomas S. Monson, “Thanks Be to God,” Ensign, May 1989, 50
Sunshine before the meeting and sunshine after the meeting Almost as though Heavenly Father is saying, “I am pleased.”
It would be well to remember that Erick Honecker was a murderer, having directed the deaths of 192 East Germans fleeing the Communist nation.
In his same LDS Conference address, Monson described the 1975 dedication of East Germany as follows:
“On a Sunday morning, April 27, 1975, I stood on an outcropping of rock situated between the cities of Dresden and Meissen, high above the Elbe River, and offered a prayer on the land and its people. That prayer noted the faith of the members. It emphasized the tender feelings of many hearts filled with an overwhelming desire to obtain temple blessings. A plea for peace was expressed. Divine help was requested. I spoke the words: “Dear Father, let this be the beginning of a new day for the members of Thy Church in this land.”
“Suddenly, from far below in the valley, a bell in a church steeple began to chime and the shrill crow of a rooster broke the morning silence, each heralding the commencement of a new day. Though my eyes were closed, I felt a warmth from the sun’s rays reaching my face, my hands, my arms. How could this be? An incessant rain had been falling all morning.”
“At the conclusion of the prayer, I gazed heavenward. I noted a ray of sunshine which streamed from an opening in the heavy clouds, a ray which engulfed the spot where our small group stood. From that moment I knew divine help was at hand.”
There you have it, a pleasing Heavenly Father blessed Monson with miraculous sunshine in the 1975 dedicatory prayer and a ratifying sunshine for Monson’s 1988 meeting with a murderer Erich Honecker.
So where was the sunshine for Monson when dedicating the Rexburg Temple?
God provides sunshine for communists but not temples.
"Remember that faith and doubt cannot exist in the same mind at the same time, for one will dispel the other.
Who says the church is anti-intellectual?
"Should doubt knock at your doorway, just say to those skeptical, disturbing, rebellious thoughts: 'I propose to stay with my faith, with the faith of my people. I know that happiness and contentment are there, and I forbid you, agnostic, doubting thoughts, to destroy the house of my faith. I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it. I grant that I cannot explain the miracles of the Bible, and I do not attempt to do so, but I accept God’s word. I wasn’t with Joseph, but I believe him. My faith did not come to me through science, and I will not permit so-called science to destroy it'" ((Thomas Monson, "The Lighthouse of the Lord: A Message to the Youth of the Church," Ensign, February 2001).
It seems to me that the church knows that its secrets are out of the closet. Anyone with 10 minutes and an Internet connection can find out any number of problems with the church's claims. Monson's advice here seems to be a response to that growing knowledge of the truth, and that response is a simple call for people to shut off their brains and listen only to the brethren.
| He doesn't really want us back, at least, the current "us" as we are now. He wants us to go back before we discovered the truth. Well, he is not just asking us to go back, but rather go backwards. He wants us to un-partake of the red pill. He wants us to accept smaller truths. He wants the former tithe-paying-rule-abiding-kept-our-mouths-shut-
patsies we used to be. He doesn't want the people we've become. He wants the people we used to be.
Even the categories that put us in - "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" - are offensive.
Mr. Monson, judging by this first speech, you've got a lot to learn about former mormons and the reasons why we left.
"Please come back - and bring your checkbook with you."
| || Abuse Of Power: Monson Picked Himself As Church President And His Daughter As Young Womens Presidency Counselor |
Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008, at 07:49 AM
Original Author(s): Steve Benson
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| In another thread, poster "Observing" observed:
". . . Nepotism is alive and well in Mormonville. So is insuring Monson's [bleep] is covered."
Indeed, so declared the LDS Church-owned "Desert News":
". . . Ann M. Dibb . . . [is now] second counselor [in the Young Women's Presidency]. Sister Dibb, a former Young Women General Board member, is President Thomas S. Monson's daughter."
As far as Monson angling to appoint himself the head of Mormon Church, that process all started years ago, back in 1989, when he was still in the Church's First Presidency, supposedly only as a counselor.
As noted by former Mormon historian D. Michael Quinn writes, Monson (along with fellow First Presidency counselor Gordon B. Hinckley) secretly conspired to angle himself into the position of de facto Church president, in clear violation of official Mormon Church governance protocol:
"By May 1989 . . . counselors [Hinckley and Monson] felt it necessary to execute legal documents giving them Ezra Taft Benson's 'power of attorney [which] shall not be affected by his "disability" or "incompetence.'"
"However, Benson was already affected by that 'disability.'
"Despite a notarized statement by the First Presidency's secretary, President Benson did not sign those documents himslef. A signature machine produced Benson's identical signatures on these legal documents.
"Without public acknowledgement, this machine-signed document formally ended an official provision for dissolving the First Presidency that had been in print for ninety years. Since 1899 the book 'Articles of Faith,' 'Written By Appointment; and Published By the Church,' had specified that the 'First Presidnecy is disorganized through the death or disability of the President.'
"However, this 1989 document specified that the counselors would not dissolve the First Presidnecy or surrender their powers despite the fact of the church president's 'disability' or 'incompetence.'
"The current apostles have supported this policy, even though the officially published 'Articles of Faith' continues to specify that when there is 'disability of the President, the directing authority in [church] government reverts at once to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles." (D. Michael Quinn, "The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power" [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books], pp. 58-59,; fn. 243-245, p. 432)
"In the years before his death President [Ezra Taft] Benson suffered from poor health, suffering from blood clots in the brain, strokes, and heart attacks. During this time, Benson almost never appeared in public, and First Counselor Gordon B. Hinckley took on many of Benson's official duties, as he had done as Second Counselor in Kimball's last years.
"Joining Hinckley in this task was Thomas S. Monson, and the two of them received legal power of attorney to act in Benson's behalf in LDS corporate affairs. Important ecclesiastical and family documents continued to be signed in Benson's name, with the aid of a signature machine.
"There was some controversy as to whether Benson's actual mental health during this time was accurately portrayed by the Church.
"According to Church spokesman Don LeFevre, Hinckley and Monson reviewed major church decisions with Benson in his home, where he was attended by a staff of nurses. However, according to Benson's grandson Steve Benson, who later became a vocal, anti-Mormon critic of the church that he quit, the elder Benson by about 1993 was living in a sweatsuit, fed by others, and incapable of recognizing others or speaking coherently.
"Steve Benson stated that in a private meeting with apostle Dallin H. Oaks, Oaks explained to the younger Benson that the apostles rotated in pairs each week to visit the elder Benson at the apartment socially, but that Benson was incapable of conducting official business. . . .
"The fact that President Benson's counselors did not have a great deal of confidence in his ability to function became evident when documents filed with the state of Utah were examined by the 'Salt Lake Tribune':
"'Documents on file with the state of Utah are strong evidence that the parent corporation of the Mormon Church no longer is being directed by its president, Ezra Taft Benson.
"'It is the first time since the corporation was founded 70 years ago that anyone other than the church president has obtained total authority over Utah's most powerful corporation.
"'The documents, at the Utah Department of Commerce, were signed with a machine that duplicates the signature of 94 year-old President Benson. They were filed six months before President Benson . . . made his last public speech.
"'Church leaders said this week the filings and the use of a signature machine were routine, and done with President Benson's approval. . . . Today, the corporation owns all church assets--including a multibillion-dollar portfolio of financial and property holdings. . . .
"'Entitled "Certificates of Authority" and dated May 23, 1989, the documents say Presidents Hinckley and Monson can keep those complete powers--even if President Benson becomes disabled or is determined by a court to be incompetent. . . . the church made no announcement of the change. It has continued to portray President Benson as the ultimate power behind church affairs. . . .
"'Fran Fish, notary public administrator for the state Department of Commerce, said signatures written by machine are legal . . .
"'Still, Ms. Fish . . . said use of a signature machine on state corporate filings 'is certainly out of the norm.'. . . Steve Benson . . . has said that his aging grandfather no longer possesses the mental faculties to handle church affairs.
"'The church has misrepresented the condition of President Benson and stated flatly that his role as prophet has in no way been impeded,' Steve Benson said . . . 'My grandfather has become a storefront mannequin while the business of the store is conducted behind closed doors.'
"He said a signature machine has replaced his grandfather's hand on all personal and family correspondence. 'Evidently,' Steve Benson said, 'the signature machine had not been programmed to sign, 'Grandpa.'"('Salt Lake Tribune,' August 15,1993)
see also: http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no85....
An online biography of Ezra Taft Benson notes that Monson "received" authority to act in the stead of the Mormon Church present, with that seizure of power coming through the use of an absentee signature machine:
"In the years before his death President Benson suffered from poor health, suffering from blood clots in the brain, strokes, and heart attacks. During this time, Benson almost never appeared in public, and First Counselor Gordon B. Hinckley took on many of Benson's official duties, as he had done as Second Counselor in Kimball's last years.
"Joining Hinckley in this task was Thomas S. Monson, and the two of them received legal power of attorney to act in Benson's behalf in LDS corporate affairs. Important ecclesiastical and family documents continued to be signed in Benson's name, with the aid of a signature machine."
Further exposure of Monson's role in essentially elevating himself to the postion of Church president while still ostensibly a First Presidency counselor comes from the "Catholic Answers Forum":
"[Steve] Benson's views seemingly were verified by an article in the 'Salt Lake Tribune,' Salt Lake City. A reporter at the paper sifted some eye-popping information from Utah's corporation records.
"The published report said the corporation that manages the church effected in 1989 a transfer of power from Ezra Taft Benson to his two counselors, Gordon Hinckley and Thomas Monson. That was done the same year that his grandfather last was seen in public, Benson said."
Additional examination of Monson's role in his self-elevation to essential Mormon Church president years before April 2008 was reported by authors Timothy Oliver, Rick Branch and James Walker in their article for the Christian website, "Center for Christ and Culture," entitled "Mormonism Overview: Historical Events, Notable Doctrines":
"[Mormon] Church leaders acknowledge that during the past four years Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monson have held absolute control, legally, of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"Though a signature machine was used to append Benson's signature to documents transferring control from Benson to Hinckley and Monson, the two certificates of authority filed in May, 1989, were declared legal." ('Salt Lake Tribune,' 15 August 1993, p. C 1, cited by Timothy Oliver, Rick Branch and James Walker in "Mormonism Overview: Historical Events, Notable Doctrines," September 19, 2006, at http://www.battlefortruth.org/ArticlesDetail.asp?id=202)
| Thomas Monson wants me back ("LDS Church President Monson urges disenfranchised to return to the fold," Tribune, April 6). I am gay. As a Mormon, I was taught to hate myself; I repeatedly flirted with killing myself. Imagine that pain, and then ask whether my coming back is going to be on your terms or mine. I have serious issues; here are some things that first need to change:
1. Honesty needs to be your policy. For example, depict Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon with his face in an upturned hat, staring at a magical peep stone.
2. Stop using the family as a weapon. My mother is brokenhearted that I will not be part of her eternal family. It is wonderful to believe "families are forever"; it's despicable to use that to extract obedience.
3. Treat women equally. Many Mormon women feel second-class. Who can blame them? They are always subservient to men.
4. Renounce racism. Repudiate teachings that blacks were less valiant in the pre-mortal life and are descendents of the murderous, marked Cain.
5. Love me for who I am - not for who you think I should be. Stop the teaching that I have a problem that needs to be fixed. Stop using religion to excuse poor behavior.
If you really need me, now you know how to find me.
| I suppose T.S. Monson didn't have time to write a new message for April - so he used an older one.
Compare the April 2008 Ensign First Presidency message:
With this message in the May 2003 Liahona:
About the only thing different is the title.
Treasure of Eternal Value (April 2008)
In Search of Treasure (May 2003)
Maybe this talk was actually taken from the Spaulding Manuscript...
| Thomas S Monson's Remunerations?
TSCC often claims how one sign of the true church is a non paid clergy .As we all know the church keeps its accounts secret ( and for good reason ).
If we enquire we are told that GA’s give up paid employment to take up full time positions as Apostles etc and they receive a Stipend ( PAY ) to compensate if needed? However what we are not told is that they seem to end up on the boards of many Church owned companies whilst serving for the Church . Not to mention the books they write and sell to a ready made market of TBM’s.
Here is some of Michael Quinn’s research for the Year 1984 for Thomas S Monson who somehow became a multi millionaire whilst serving for the church most of his life.
The information is taken from Quinns research as aired by Shawn McCraney's ( Born again Mormon)latest TV show 06/03/2008 Show ( 18 mins in approx )
Thomas S Monson whilst an Apostle of the church in 1984 seem to have plenty of time to be on the boards of these church owned/linked companies
Can they honestly say no paid clergy ?
- President and Chairman - Deseret News Publishing Company
- Vice President LDS Social Sevices
- Vice President Newspaper Agency Corporation
- Director Beneficial Life Insurance Company
- Director Commercial Security Bank
- Director Commercial Security Bank Corporation
- Director Continental Western Life Insurance Company
- Director Deseret Management Company
- Director IHC Hospitals Incorporated
- Director Mountain Safe Telephone and Telegram Company
- Director Murdoch Travel
- Director PHA Life Insurance Company
- Director Pioneer Memorial Theater
- Director Western American Life Insurance Company
| || Tommy Monson's First Revelation: Looking Up Scriptures In Sacrament Is Irreverent |
Monday, Jun 16, 2008, at 07:41 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| As read to all Mormons the past few Sundays:
Dear Brethren and Sisters:
Signed by Thomas S. Monson, the pea-brained bureaucrat.
Use of Scriptures and Visual Aids in Sacrament Meeting and Stake Conference
We are encouraged by the number of Church members who are actively studying the revealed word of the Lord as found in the scriptures. We note with appreciation that many are also bringing their scriptures to Church meetings and using them as the basis for speaking and teaching.
In order to maintain an atmosphere of reverent worship in our sacrament and stake conference meetings, when speakers use scriptures as part of their talks they should not ask the congregation to open their own books to the scriptural reference. Also, members should not use visual aids and their sacrament meeting or stake conference talks. Such teaching methods are more effective in classroom settings and leadership meetings.
We believe these adjustments will enhance the spirit of our worship services,
The First Presidency
The tighter they squeeze, the more that will fall between their fingers.
| This is a 100% true account as far as my brain can recollect, names have been changed to protect the innocent. The guilty can fend for themselves as their names go unaltered. Go with me to the year 1995....
Working at the Church Office Building in church catering and then later at the Lion House opened my eyes to just how human the brethren are, and in fact, one could say helped my testimony to "mature" because it was often in spite of the humanity of the Lord's servants that I knew the gospel was true. After all, if the Lord could call men with weakness and frailties common to the human race, to positions of church leadership then I might just have a chance at making it, not into leadership, but into the top kingdom.
There are little things which I would categorize as minor inconsistencies that I observed such as the almost nazi-like mannerisms of one Thomas S. Monson. My first experience with Elder Monson was when I was working at the COB during the busy Christmas banquet season. My job was to set up tables and chairs, arrange place settings, put down silverware, etc.
Occasionally, we were asked to do some food prep. Unlike for any other General Authorities that I recall, there were always "special instructions" for Elder Monson whenever he was in attendance. He always had to have an ice-cold milk below a certain temperature, and there was invariably a carton of milk in the kitchen's refrigerator with a thermometer sticking out of it for Elder Monson.
I once road the elevator all the way to the 26th floor with Elder Monson. Although I was too intimidated to make conversation, he did speak to me cordially, but did not strike me as being a very sincere person, let alone an apostle of the Lord. It wasn't until later when I worked at the Lion House that I began to understand his reputation among the employees who had had the misfortune of working in any capacity under his tutelage.
I was present for an event which shattered my idealization of "the Brethren" forever. We had always been taught the unwritten order of things as it applies to church employment. Although not directly employed by the church, it was nonetheless our obligation to make sure to cater to the whims and demands of the brethren when those demands were exacted upon us. This lesson was driven home at an awful price that culminated in a dramatic end.
It was President Monson's birthday and the quorums of the twelve and the seventy were going to surprise Elder Monson with a cake in a meeting to be held in his honor that afternoon. We didn't receive the cake order until the morning of the event. The order came down to an employee by the name of Beth who was the pie and cake baker. Beth was not exactly what you would classify as a stellar true believing member of the church. Years of church employment and personal problems had left her somewhat disgruntled and jaded against the church and she resented and resisted the unwritten order of things.
On this particular day, she had several other cake orders to fill and she was falling behind. I could hear her resentful grumbling from the Pantry kitchen, and her resolution that went something like, "Well, Elder Monson is just going to have to wait for his precious cake, because I have other orders that have been on the books for months to do." So, she saved the cake for last. It was a beautiful 3-layer chocolate cake which came fresh out of the oven with minutes to spare before the Administration Building employees were to pick it up. Normally a cake such as that would need a few hours of cooling time before it could be frosted, but alas, there simply wasn't time. She slathered on the chocolate frosting in a fit of panic, piped out some happy birthday message in frosting on the top, and threw it in a box. It was on its way and soon forgotten.
The next morning there was an "emergency staff meeting" called by Karen Hildegard, the Manager. You could tell she had been crying. She, in what must have been the few moments of composure she had been capable of mustering that whole morning, proceeded to sternly recount the fate of the cake after it left the premises. In the time which elapsed between its departure from our kitchen to when it was opened for President Monson's delight, the entire 3-layer cake had slid off into a virtual glob of melted chocolate frosting. Apparently, no one had opened the box at the Administration Building for a preliminary inspection.
Karen continued to passionately re-enforce the policy that whenever we receive an order for a General Authority, we are to drop everything and attend to it, and to do it better than we would any other order. Her voice was several orders of magnitude in emotion above anything any of us had ever heard before and she explained it in words similar to this: "I just had a meeting with the First Presidency in my office. Do any of you have any idea what it's like to have the entire First Presidency in your office yelling at you? I know none of you want to know what that is like, and I will *not* be in that position again."
All of it seemed so funny up until that moment. I tried to picture Presidents Hinckley, Monson, and Faust literally yelling over a stupid cake incident. It didn't make sense. Men of God simply do not see things in that perspective. Surely men of god, the 3 highest-ranking men in the kingdom of God on the earth, the mouthpieces of God would not make another human being, especially one which reveres and idolizes them so, feel so little as to yell at them over a stupid mistake, a mistake that wasn't even directly her fault. Everyone who knows Karen thinks she is a wonderful, kind-hearted, level-headed cool cucumber, but on this occasion, she had come unglued. It tore me up inside to say nothing of how it must have made Beth feel for being the cause of this public rant. That one took a great deal of mental shelf space.
| The short version of the story is that a new missionary is sorrowful because his dad is not a member of the LDS Church. Monson as Mission President promises him in a blessing that if he is a faithful missionary his dad will join the church before he gets home from his mission. The missionary is faithful, but he's at the end of his mission and his dad hasn't joined. A few weeks after the missionary returns home, President Monson receives a letter from dad telling Monson that a week before his son returned from his mission, he had been baptized.
There are a few holes in the story. First off, why doesn't Monson use the missionary's name so the story could be verified? It's not as if he needed to protect the name of the missionary and his dad. Secondly, why would the dad get baptized a week before his son returns from his mission? Common sense tells me that if this is a true story dad would wait and let his son baptize him upon his return home since he only needed to wait a week.
I have a feeling Monson tells a lot of Paul Dunn stories. I wish it was possible to make him produce some evidence of his faith promoting crap. What bugs me is that I have resigned from the church and the home teacher comes to the house teaching my Mormon family this stuff. I guess the moral of the story is they've got to pray more and be more faithful so their apostate dad will be rebaptized into the LDS Church.
| I attended the UVU (Utah Valley University) commencement last Friday. Thomas S. Monson was the big speaker and, unfortunately, the biggest reason for the large turnout at the event. I thought I'd share what happened.
First of all, the place was packed. Once the thing started, I don't think there were many free seats at all. It was announced that not only was Monson and his wife there, but also the rest of the first presidency and their wives. When this was said, half the audience whipped out their cameras and started snapping pictures.
Monson and his wife, along with another lady, were awarded honorary degrees. There were several standing ovations. When Monson's wife was given her degree, Monson kissed her and the audience flipped. I could hear "awwwww!" and "so cute!" coming from all around me.
When Monson gave his speech, there were at least 10-20 flashes going off at any given moment. Seriously...so many people were taking pictures THE WHOLE TIME that it was like Monson was some big celebrity instead of a "Prophet of God." He started talking about some "glance behind, reach out, move ahead" crap or something...I don't remember. Honestly, I became more distracted with the female graduate who fainted and had to have people come and carry her away during the speech. Monson didn't stop talking...he just droned on. He probably made her faint.
In typical Mormon style, many people left as soon as Monson had finished, causing me to think that they had actually come ONLY to hear Monson and didn't even know anyone who was graduating that day. How irritating. They took seats that could have been used by people who were actually connected to the graduation.
All in all, it was ridiculous, and I can't believe the attention Monson was showered with when it should have been the graduating students who enjoyed getting fussed over instead. The whole time, I was upset that he was stealing their thunder. And he's so smug about it...I can tell he loved the attention...all the cameras and the standing ovations and all...
So there you have it. Was anyone else from RFM there, too? What did you think?
| Years ago, my sister worked for the church's insurance company, DMBA. The GA over them was Thomas S. Monson. She said she felt so guilty when he was put in as prophet, because she despised the guy, everyone at the office did because he was a tyrant. Then she told me about their annual office Christmas parties.
The office party consisted of serving really good food and listening to TSM give them all a talk. People, of course, didn't want to hear him and would grab the food and sneak out. Then they banned people from leaving. One year they even put church guards in front of the exits to keep people from leaving their own Christmas party!!
Can you imagine any other business in the free world posting guards to keep people in their own party? Anyone else have fun times with Tommy?
| || Thomas Monson: Forbid Yourself From Believing In Science, Agnostics, Or Other Faiths |
Tuesday, Aug 4, 2009, at 09:54 AM
Original Author(s): Mercury
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
"Should doubt knock at your doorway, just say to thoseskeptical, disturbing, rebellious thoughts 'I propose to stay with my faith, with the faith of my people. I know that happiness and contentment are there, and I forbid you, agnostic, doubting thoughts, to destroy the house of my faith. I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it. I grant that I cannot explain the miracles of the Bible, and I do not attempt to do so, but I accept God’s word. I wasn’t with Joseph, but I believe him. My faith did not come to me through science, and I will not permit so-called science to destroy it.'" Thomas S. Monson, “The Lighthouse of the Lord: A Message to the Youth of the Church,” Ensign, Feb 2001
The effects of this attitude regarding the membership of the church should be very telling for church members. Here is the head of the church stating that regardless of anything that one may experience, be taught, witness, or otherwise gain in the way of life experience is all for naught.
Notice he uses the word "forbid". One "forbids" oneself to think and to reason. In essence, one should not think for oneself over fear of thinking too much. The very creator he wishes to have people align with , the same that gave mankind the ability to do those very things, is now told to not do so. How anyone cannot see this for being a veiled attempt at stopping "thought-crime" is beyond me.
For an institution that is supposed to be one that is to open the eyes of it's members to all the mysteries of creation, miracles, decrees, commandments, etc. it is amazing that no one sees throught Toms bullshit pleas to not worry about not understanding, it, but to just continue to bury your head in the sand and have faith. Oh. Don't forget to keep those tithes rolling in.
All praise Joseph. All hail Joseph the First, creator of the new dispensation. As we all know, the church is nothing without the distorted, twisted, falsified history of Joseph himself.
What do I think about it? I think Tom is doing nothing but pleading with the members to lie to themselves.
| || Oaks And Holland Sure, But Did Anyone Mention Monson Lying In This Last Conference |
Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009, at 08:04 AM
Original Author(s): Mormonkey
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| It was during priesthood session and he was giving a talk about anger, he basically said anger was not good for anything, but earlier in the conference Oaks said that the Lords' anger was proof of his love for us. But I digress
Basically in the priesthood session, Thomas Monson told the story of the milk strippings. I'm sick of this story, but basically two women argued over milk strippings and one lady didn't give her the strippings as promised, their arguement went to the bishop, then the higher up and eventually to the Q12.
The man who's wife was pissed (I forget his name) was so upset by the Q12's decision that he went to Govenor Boggs and basically told him some story or something.
Then Monson says "This is either completely responsible, or in large part responsible for Govenor Bogg's decision to issue an extermination order!"
Holy crap!! You mean that Boggs decided to exterminate the Mormons because this lady didn't get her milk strippings and her husband complaind and told a bunch of lies about the mormon church and Boggs believed and decided to kill the mormons.
Nevermind that the Danites were told by JS to kill and steal to acquire the property of the Gentiles because the lord willed it. Nevermind that the mormons have been horrible neighbors everywhere they move to. Nevermind that JS had made passes at other men's wives or that he scammed people out of their money with the Anti-Bank fiasco. Nevermind that Rigdon issued a threat to Boggs first.
This stupid milk strippings story keeps coming up and I can't believe Monson used it to illustrate anger and at the same time dismiss all the horrible things the Mormons did that caused them to come into disfavor with the Govenor of Missouri.
It's basically like saying World War 2 started because some British guy made a pass at Hitler's sister and she wasn't pleased about it.
Good grief, the hardest part of all of this for me is that not a single mormon knows this and they all accept what Monson says without question.
| I hated General Conference. I always watched it lying down, on the other side of the coffee table, out of others' view. I would just sleep, but eventually I would get found out when someone got up to go to the bathroom and would get in trouble. So it was one big long sleep and wake, sleep and wake cycle from start to finish. The one exception to this was Monson. I was a cheesy kid. I like bad poetry. I was into Mili Vanili for heaven's sake. I used to listen to that crappy pop mormon music on Sundays and read poems from Especially for Mormons. Basically, I had bad taste. So of couse I ate up Monson's widow story. I was an aspiring liberal in a conservative family, so I dug any story about widows or suffering farm animals. :-)
I became a Monson groupie and appreciated that for a few minutes during General Conference, I didn't fall asleep.
Because of my new favorite band. . .er. . .GA. . .I was thrilled when I found out I was going to get to meet him if I read the whole Book of Mormon. We all got to stay the night in Salt Lake and also were able to go to Raging Waters with all of the youth in the Stake. I read that whole damn, boring book and hated it, but looked forward to meeting Monson. I was the Beehive president and my mom was the RS president, so I also kind of had to, so I did.
The big day came and I was SO thrilled. Monson gave a short, crappy talk. A few of us tried desperately to meet him twice and he gave a dirty look and side-stepped both times. I went to the bathroom and cried. I was so crushed he refused to shake my hand and hear how much I like his talks when I held my hand out right in front of him. His look was cold and one of dislike. I had actually gone to the bathroom to make sure I didn't have a button that had popped or something in my teeth or hair. I couldn't figure it out. I was crushed. On the upside, all of General Conference became boring to me after that, which was a good apostate start for me. Once I saw in his eyes and saw what kind of man he really was, the fake widow stories were easier to spot and they no longer caused tears, but rather, a roll of the eyes. So when Proposition H8 came around, I really wasn't surprised because it's not the first time that man has shunned this lesbian.
| The purpose of the Values Institute was kept a secret from the general public, but generally comprised of: combating homosexuality, doing research on homosexuality, fighting homosexuality within the church, and writing a book to verify the LDS church's position on homosexuality.
The public was only told that it would conduct "research that would assist in preventing and changing problem behaviors which lead people away from eternal life." The Values Institute was to be provided resources and assistance from LDS Social Services.
The first main goal of the Values Institute was to produce a manuscript "which would set forth significant empirical evidence in support of the Church's position on homosexuality." The book was to be written by Bergin and Victor L. Brown Jr. (of LDS Social Services), approved by a General Authority, published by a popular Eastern Press, and have no appearance of a connection with the church. Then the book was going to be used as "secular evidence" to back up LDS Church claims on homosexuality.
| Monson just told a story about how as a little boy, he gave all his change to his dad in exchange for a $5.00 bill. Then forgot he put it in the pocket of his pants and his mom sent his pants out to the laundry. He was so afraid he'd lost all his money, that the money in his pocket would come out in the wash and be gone for good, that he said a prayer. When the pants came back from the laundry, the money was in his pocket.
One would think that when the pants came back from the laundry either the money was there or it wasn't. However Monson prayed and THEN found it in the pocket. Did the prayer reach back in time and change what had happened at the laundry? Or was the bill in a "mixed state" of being there and not there. This would be much like Schroedinger's Cat, the famous Quantum Mechanics paradox, that is in a mixed state of being alive and dead until the box is opened and a "measurement" is made.
Monson's Money paradox has the $5 in a mixed state of "there and not there" until a prayer (or lack of it) forces the money to assume an eigenstate. I'm sure someone from the BYU Physics department can write and article on this for "BYU Studies."
| Runtu's thread on the stake president that spoke two contradictory things in the same talk reminded me of something.
First of all, what that stake president said:
1. That the disparaging internet information was incomplete and that the Brethren have all the data and info in context.
2. That those who leave over such information aren't sufficiently converted.
These two statements are contradictory. Conversion is allegedly through the spirit and having faith. Facts are through learning actual observables. Faith is what one has when one has no observables (i.e., no facts).
If they have all the facts that dispel the "internet data", then why would there be a need to have faith and conversion?
Anyway, that reminded me of the two sides of Monson on science.
" Should doubt knock at your doorway, just say to those skeptical, disturbing, rebellious thoughts: 'I propose to stay with my faith, with the faith of my people. I know that happiness and contentment are there, and I forbid you, agnostic, doubting thoughts, to destroy the house of my faith. I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it. I grant that I cannot explain the miracles of the Bible, and I do not attempt to do so, but I accept God’s word. I wasn’t with Joseph, but I believe him. My faith did not come to me through science, and I will not permit so-called science to destroy it.' "
Repeat: "My faith did not come to me through science and I will not permit so-called science to destroy it."
This is the second point the stake president made (if your faith is strong enough, you don't need facts).
Then there's the second Monson:
"Yesterday’s science fiction has become today’s reality. And that reality, thanks to the technology of our times, is changing so fast we can barely keep up with it–if we do at all. For those of us who remember dial telephones and manual typewriters, today’s technology is more than merely amazing.
Also evolving at a rapid rate has been the moral compass of society. Behaviors which once were considered inappropriate and immoral are now not only tolerated but also viewed by ever so many as acceptable."
Now science is reality. It is true. It's no long "so-called science". It's now amazing. And it's associated with immorality. Bad science, bad.
The rest of that latter talk is about how modern society is moving head-long into end-of-days rampant immorality.
On the other hand, we're told we cannot judge the banking scandal, polygamy scandal, boasting and other weaknesses of Joseph Smith or of the racism of Brigham Young by our current moral viewpoint. They lived under a softer code and aren't responsible for their weaknesses which were perfectly normal in the society they lived in.
Here's another great statement like the one above, this time from Ballard.
" The 179 years that have passed since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was officially organized have been extraordinary by any measure. Never in recorded history has there been a period of such remarkable progress in terms of science and technology. These advances have helped to facilitate gospel growth and expansion throughout the world. But they have also contributed to the rise of materialism and self-indulgence and to the decline of morality.
"We live in an era when the boundaries of good taste and public decency are being pushed to the point where there are no boundaries at all. The commandments of God have taken a beating in the vacillating marketplace of ideas that absolutely rejects the notion of right and wrong. "
Ballard essentially admits that the LDS church cannot compete in the world of facts (marketplace of ideas) which don't confirm their version of right and wrong.
They know they're toast. They know the jig is up.
| I heard this morning from one of my informants--this is the person who supposedly has a rather deep connection to the Church hierarchy in Salt Lake City. Compared with the intel I receive concerning the Maxwell Institute, this is much harder to verify, so as always, take it with a shaker-full of salt.
In any case, I was told that Pres. Monson has entered a period of decline due to Alzheimer's Disease. Allegedly, he has begun to do "embarrassing" things in public venues, and he is now surrounded by Church-appointed handlers virtually 24-7. The interesting thing is that the Brethren have (again, allegedly) divided into competing factions. One of these is led by Elder Uchtdorf, who basically wants to take over in much the same way that Pres. Hinckley did after Pres. Benson became incapacitated.
The other faction is, of course, led by Elder Packer. Interestingly, according to my informant, Elder Packer wants to stage a kind of "coup" whereby the Brethren would vote to give Pres. Monson "emeritus" status, thus allowing Packer to ascend to the throne in spite of the fact that Monson is still alive. My informant added in the detail that Pres. Packer's patriarchal blessing said that he would one day hold the office of Church President, so he may view this as his chance to fulfill this "divine calling."
Again: I want to stress that, as of right now, this pretty much has the status of a "believable rumor." As with a lot of the intel I am given, its truthfulness (or falseness) will be borne out in the coming weeks and months. So treat this with skepticism.
| President Monson's 85th birthday bash was on Friday. Although he attended and waved to the crowd at the end, his only remarks were in the form of a pre-recorded message, in which President Monson expressed his thanks to all who participated in the concert and to concert-goers for their expressions of love.
It is also interesting to note that President Monson will not be dedicating the Brigham City Temple next month. My money is on President Monson not dedicating the Calgary Temple in October (it's very unusual that NO announcement has been made that Monson will dedicate the Calgary Temple).
I don't think the Church has anything to fear from disclosing the truth regarding President Monson's mental/physical condition. On the contrary, there would be a massive outpouring of support and love from the members.
My hope is that someday the Church will not be afraid, ashamed of, or hide from the truth.
| New Temple Dedication, where's Monson?
Hardly a mention of Monson, dearly beloved Packer gave the dedication prayer.
So he attended his b-day bash, but didn't speak. He watched his own pre-recorded blurb.
He was a no-show on July 24th, at the mormon parade.
He missed the temple re-dedication in Buenos Aires and sent Eyring in his stead.
He skipped the Brigham City dedication altogether.
IIRC, next up is the October so-called "general conference". Will he show up? If he is there, will they let him at the hot mic?
I'm thinking we are right - he's checked out.
| || Monson's Example Of Conduct For 18 Year Old Missionaries (Falsifying The Real Character Of The Original) |
Monday, Oct 15, 2012, at 07:26 AM
Original Author(s): Snowowl
Topic: THOMAS S. MONSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Monson's example of conduct for 18 year old missionaries (falsifying the real character of the original)
In the Conference just concluded last Sunday, Thomas Monson said:
"Within two short years, all of the full-time missionaries currently serving in this royal army of God will have concluded their full-time labors and will have returned to their homes and loved ones. Their replacements are found tonight in the ranks of the Aaronic Priesthood of the Church. Young men, are you ready to respond? Are you willing to work? Are you prepared to serve?
President Thomas S. "See Others as They May Become" Saturday evening Priesthood Session October 2012 General Conference http://www.lds.org/general-conference...
President John Taylor summed up the requirements: 'The kind of men we want as bearers of this gospel message are men who have faith in God; men who have faith in their religion; men who honor their priesthood; . men full of the Holy Ghost and the power of God[;] . men of honor, integrity, virtue and purity.'"
Monson's example for the newly drafted 18 year old missionaries is President John Taylor, who said the following while in Europe in 1850:
"We are accused here of polygamy, and actions the most indelicate, obscene, and disgusting, such that none but a corrupt and depraved heart could have contrived. These things are too outrageous to admit of belief: . . . I shall content myself by reading our views of chastity and marriage, from a work published by us, containing some of the articles of our Faith. 'Doctrine and Covenants,' page 330 . . . 'Inasmuch as this Church of Jesus Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.'"
A public discussion, Boulogne-Sur-Mer, France 1850 - President John Taylor - Published in a tract by John Taylor, from Orson Pratt's Words, 1851.
At the time he made the statement, John Taylor already had 6 living wives and eventually ended with 14 wives and 34 children.
President Monson failed to append liar and prevaricator to President Taylor's resume when recommending him as the example for newly drafted 18 year old missionaries.
After the Manifesto of 1890 (supposedly banning polygamy), and "Before the investigation had begun it was well known in Salt Lake City that it was expected to show on the part of the protestants that Apostles George Teasdale, John W. Taylor, and M. F. Cowley, and also Prof. J. M. Tanner, Samuel Newton and others who were all high officials of the Mormon Church had recently taken plural wives, and that in 1896 Lillian Hamlin was sealed to Apostle Abraham H. Cannon.... All, or nearly all, of these persons except Abraham H. Cannon, who was deceased, were then within reach of service of process from the committee. But shortly before the investigation began all these witnesses went out of the country. . . .
Subpoenas were issued for each one of the witnesses named, but in the case of Samuel Newton only could the process of the committee be served. Mr. Newton refused to obey the order of the committee ... John W. Taylor was sent out of the country by Joseph F. Smith on a real or pretended mission for the church. . . .
It would be nothing short of self-stultification for one to believe that all these most important witnesses chanced to leave the United States at about the same time and without reference to the investigation. All the facts and circumstances surrounding the transaction point to the conclusion that every one of the witnesses named left the country at the instance [sic] of the rulers of the Mormon Church and to avoid testifying before the committee.... The reason why the said witnesses left the country and have refused to come before the committee is easy to understand, in view of the testimony showing the contracting of plural marriages by prominent officials of the Mormon Church within the past few years."
'Reed Smoot Case,' vol. 4, pp. 476-82).
Follow the living prophet, he will not steer you astray.
| It's scary being a Mormon:
"In the decades since the end of World War II, standards of morality have lowered again and again. Crime spirals upward; decency careens downward. Many are on a giant roller coaster of disaster, seeking the thrills of the moment while sacrificing the joys of eternity. Thus we forfeit peace."
I can accept that there are bad things in the world, but its hard for me to honestly look at history and think it was generally better in the past and overlook the improvements we have made regarding slavery, racism, rigid class systems, accepted violence, access to food, education, and everything else I can think of.
"We forget how the Greeks and Romans prevailed magnificently in a barbaric world and how that triumph ended–how a slackness and softness finally overcame them to their ruin. In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security and a comfortable life; and they lost all–comfort and security and freedom."
I totally thought he was going to say the Greeks and Romans failed due to morality issues. Instead it sounds almost like something Benjamin Franklin would say. Since this message could potentially be from God himself, I wanted to know what exactly is meant by wanting security and a comfortable life more than freedom. Sounds like a good Tea Party rally cry, but I want to know what a Prophet of God means when he says it.
Turns out he plagiarized it directly from Edward Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". What makes this especially interesting is that Gibbon blames Christianity for the indifferent attitude among the citizens leading to the fall.
Digging a little deeper it turns out the whole talk is a complete repeat (with interesting but minor changes) of Monson's April 1967 talk "Come Follow Me". Suddenly the whole talk makes sense. "In the decades since ... WWII" seems like less of a blanket statement when he's only talking about 2 decades.
July 2013: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/07/th...
Roman Empire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hist...
| My wife used to work for the church headquarters as a floral designer for several years. Because she was recognized for her talent, she decorated every major conference and event in Temple Square. She was also "privileged" to attend to flowers in the First Presidency's offices on daily basis. Having done this job for several years, she became very familiar the structure of their offices including the pictures on the walls.
Then on October 4, 2004, she was watching the general conference on TV at home. When Thomas Monson who was first counselor at the time gave his talk titled "Choose You This Day," she was quite surprised to hear the following remark:
"Do we have a guide to help us choose the right and avoid dangerous detours? Positioned on the wall of my office, directly opposite my desk, is a lovely print of the Savior, painted by Heinrich Hofmann. I love the painting, which I have had since I was a 22-year-old bishop and which I have taken with me wherever I have been assigned to labor. I have tried to pattern my life after the Master. Whenever I have a difficult decision to make, I have looked at that picture and asked myself, "What would He do?" Then I try to do it. We can never go wrong when we choose to follow the Savior."
(You can read Monson's complete sermon at the following link.)
When he was making this remark, TV showed a video footage of the painting of "the Savior" on his office wall. (See the video footage at the following link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6zJMvNxEME)
What startled her was Monson's remark on the painting of the Savior on his office wall, because she had never seen the painting before in his office. According to her a painting of a dilapidated old barn was supposed to be hanging there.
So she decided to check it out the first on Monday morning. She briefly let one of her co-workers what she had seen on TV on Sunday and invited her to come to his office together. When she got to his office, she saw the old barn painting hanging on the wall. So she came to wonder if the office Tommy boy mentioned in his talk was his home office. But when she looked around, she saw the same painting of the Savior lying on sofa next to his desk. There was an envelop on top of the painting as if it contained some instruction.
It was quite obvious that somebody (TV crew?) had removed the "barn" painting to shoot a video of the painting of the Savior and then had hung the "barn" painting back on the wall after the video shooting.
A few days later, for some unknown reason, the "barn" painting was replaced with the painting of the Savior again, which has been hanging on the wall ever since. (maybe to cover up his lie?)
What does this incident tell us? Obviously Tommy boy made up his blatantly false story to deliver "faith-promoting" sermon to his audiences. It also tells us this may not be his only lie. Anyway, this incident accelerated my wife's exit from Mormonism and I am thankful for that.
| I do sympathize with much of the depressing sentiments over conference. I was actually pretty optimistic after Dieter's Saturday talk and I just rolled my eyes at Oaks, Cook, Nelson, McConkie, Bednar, and others. But one unscripted moment occurred in the priesthood session that has not been mentioned and perhaps I only noticed because I am immature and sometimes have a potty mouth.
Monson was talking about home teaching in priesthood as has been noticed and he had a few personal stories as we would all expect. I do not wish to cast aspersion upon anyone based on a shallow, immature reaction to their name, but did no one vet the talk that Monson gave? I suppose that if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
And that's good, because Monson's second story was about some guy named (drumroll, please) "Dick Hammer". You can see it in his talk called "True Shepherds" at http://www.lds.org/general-conference...
Pres. Monson said it the first time and I was pulled out of my distracted reverie wondering if I heard this correctly. But Dick Hammer did apparently open "Dick's Caf" in St. George at one time. I recognize that the diminutive name for Richard is so rarely used these days due to an unfortunate synonym with the organ that allows entrance to priesthood session. But Monson kept going and we ended up with this exchange which I quote knowing that I may need some repenting:
I would ask my friend Brother Milne when I visited St. George, "How is our friend Dick Hammer coming?"
Realize I come not to bury Dick Hammer, but to praise him. Because of Brother Dick Hammer's embrace of the gospel, my son and I shared both loud laughter and possible evil speaking of the Lord's anointed on our drive home.
The reply would generally be, "He's coming, but slowly."
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