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The Mormon Church uses Cub and Boy Scouts as a religiously based organizational path towards missions and and lifelong members of the Mormon Church. Leaders are "called" by praying for inspiration rather than utilizing members with proper experience in Scouting. Emphasis is based on Mormonism and young men are accelerated through the Scouting program faster than young men outside the Church. Mormon Boy Scouts can receive an Eagle Award simply by placing bags on neighborhood doors and collecting food for homeless shelters. All meetings, ceremonies and awards are held in Mormon Churches.
Mormon Scouting Is A Joke, And Not Even A Good One
Monday, Mar 7, 2005, at 01:59 AM
Original Author(s): Onslow
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Years ago I was asked by a Baptist Church to start a non-morg troop in the north-west area of Salt Lake. We received our training by the only show in town that is the mormon establishment.

It was a statistical fact that mormon troops graduated kids to Eagle Scout TWICE as fast as the national average. The morg allows almost nonsensical Eagle Projects, such as carpet cleaning in the local ward or Stake Center. Our troop as well as the national standard is to assure that this project was a REAL service and had an impact in someone's life, reading programs for the elderly, time spent entertaining sick children in the local hospitals. These projects had to involve participation over time. I know personally of kids making Eagle at the age of 13 1/2. that is only a little over a year into the program. I was involved with a young scout that only got his eagle after 6 months of community service to these kids in the hospital and knew of two kids who died of a brain tumor and one of leukemia. I disagree with some of the foundational elements of the Scouting Program, having to accept a god, worrying about gay leaders or for hells sake, worrying about whether a kid is gay or not. I swelled with pride at promoting young men to Life or Eagle after seeing them work their asses off to get it and then seeing morg kids get Life at 13 or 14, and still accomplish nothing.
Secret Ceremonies In Mormon Boy Scouts
Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005, at 08:18 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
DW is her Ward's Cub Scout Den Mother and she is completely unfamiliar with Scouts. She's learning fast and enjoys it so on that note, it's a good "calling." (Can I say how much I HATE Mormonese?)

Last night they had their first Pack Meeting since she took over. When she got home, she was telling me about some of the boys being awarded the Arrow of Light award. I don't think they had that when I was a Cub Scout in the 60s but in any event, she found the ceremony for awarding the pin amusing and something little boys just eat up.

The room is darkened with only one light lit - in this case, a lamp with the shade turned upside down to create a beacon effect toward the ceiling. A man comes in and places an authentic wolf skin (head and all) on the boys, each in turn, paints their foreheads and says some "magic words" that I think the boys had to repeat, and then each of the boys is given Indian feathers to wear.

DW was really tickled by this. I was too. But the whole time she's telling me I was wondering if she saw any connections . . . get where I'm going with this?

This ceremony is probably based on some old "sacred" rituals of Native Americans that were never intended to be cute or amusing.

Sure little boys eat this stuff up. So do some big boys. All that was missing was a secret handshake:
  • Lamp Light - Mirrors (temple wedding), veil, or other Temple symbols
  • Wolf Skin - Temple clothes or garments (is this any more ridiculous than a baker's hat or green apron with leaves?)
  • Paint on forehead - Anointing with oil
  • "Magic words" or stock phrases that are repeated - Temple vows/covenants
Anyone Here Have Their Eyes Opened While Working At Boy Scout Camps?
Friday, Jun 24, 2005, at 09:41 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
I worked for several summers at the Lake Arrowhead Boy Scout Camps near Los Angeles. Far from being a totally wholesome experience, I look back at months away from home living and working with other young kids with minimal supervision and realize that they were my first real exposure to a lot of non-church approved activity. I was exposed to a lot of behavior and ideas that would make my mother cry. For the first time I really knew people who drank, smoked pot, actively sought to fornicate and who also were not shy in explaining what they thought about the Mormon church. (it is impossible to be in Scouting and not have an opinion). I think eventually being exposed to people who had other values but still didn’t sneer constantly or give off the other obvious signs that church and family movies teach you to look for in identifying the bad guys made me more open to seeing a larger world. I guess I had been fairly sheltered prior to that, most of my friends at school being Mormon. And not everyone there drank, smoked pot or fornicated, by any means, and I didn't approve of everything I witnessed but I did learn better not to judge and I got to really know people my own age and a little older, away from constant supervision in a situation where we basically ran the show.

The staff was about ¼ LDS and many of them managed to stay on the straight and narrow but I think most of them still had their eyes opened to a larger world. It was hard to get to church and there weren’t always LDS troops around to have Sunday Sacrament meeting with. I found I didn’t really miss going to church. I think my first inkling that the church may not be all it claimed to be came during my many spirited defenses of the church that I was forced to make.
The Mormon Church Is A Complete Disgrace To The Scouting Program
Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005, at 07:16 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
The mormon church should drop the scouting program. Let’s see how many ways the fail.

Scout Law
A scout is:
Endless lies, changing stories, hidden polygamy
Leave members in their misery after following the church’s counsel
They take, take, take, and never give back
False friendships to gain converts and tithing
Some of the most arrogant and standoffish people in the world
The brethren only think of themselves
They violate laws, standards of decency, and morals if it suits them
Cheerful: Only under the influence of anti-depressants
Thrifty: Highest level of bankruptcies in the nation
They do not have the guts to stand up for the truth
They are as dirty as the mob
Their behavior shows extreme irreverence toward religious standards and indicates the lack of belief in any god

Boy Scout Oath

On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

1. Their corruption indicates they are not doing their duty to God.
2. As indicated above they do not obey the Scout Law at all.
3. The only people they help are themselves by building themselves up and filling their bank accounts at other people’s expense.
4. They meet this one half-way. However, they extreme schedules that many mormons keep is not conducive to this.
5. Their stifling of the truth and insistence that members not ask questions is the antithesis of staying mentally awake.
6. They have no conception of morals. Lies, lies, and more lies.
I've Always Been A BSA Supporter / Volunteer Up Until Recently
Monday, Jan 16, 2006, at 04:22 AM
Original Author(s): Koriwhore
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Now that I'm no longer a TBM religious zealot and reject magical thinking, I realize that I would no longer be allowed to serve as a BSA leader.

Here's their official policy for youth and Adult volunteers in regards to their religious beliefs.;dut-155....
Youth and Adult Volunteers: Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as adult volunteer leaders.
So apparently some of the greatest US patriots in history John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine and Abraham Lincoln would not be considered "the best kind of citizens" since they saw themselves as Deists who rejected religion and they would therfore not qualify as scout leaders or as Boy Scouts.

Do I want to support an organization that would consider people like the authors of the US constitution and abolitionists something other than "the best kind of citizens" while abusive religious zealots are pass the BSA litmus test and are therefore given free reign over scout troops full of potential victims?

My entire scout troop was molested when I was a child, except me, since my parents fortunately didn't support my scout activity (thankfully). Now the LDS church is facing a multi-million dollar lawsuit against it, since they protected a known pedophile and put him in charge of an entire scout troop full of victims, unattended and suprise suprise, years later people start comig out of the woodwork like a bunch of alter boys, claiming they were abused by this SOB. Mormon church claims ignorance.

In another, more recent case, I caught an LDS bishop telling me a bald faced lie when he claimed ignorance of an abusive member of his ward who had repeatedly molested a mentally challenged boy scout. The perpetrator was then allowed to get off scott free and continue on in the scouting program with zero repercussions. The victim was excluded from scouts. And the boys who were courageous enough to report it to me were punished as a result of speaking to outsiders about "private matters".

I was a scout leader for years in the Mormon church. Every year we were told by BSA that we needed to present BSA's Youth Protection program to the scouts and their parents. Every year we told the Young Men's Presidency and the Bishop. Every year the BSA requirement was ignored and the training was never conducted until an attorney called me and asked me if I would testify against the church in friends lawsuit against the Mormon church, that I woke up.

I was active at the time, but when I told my bishop and Young Men's president about the pending lawsuit against the church and the fact that the attorney who contacted me was very curious about my ignored attempts to get our troop to comply with BSA requirements, they finally allowed me to conduct the BSA requred presentation, which they hijacked and turned into bearing their testies about how boy scouts is all about becoming a missionary.

I finally realized that as a member of the church, I'd be disciplined for telling the truth about the abuse I was aware of in the church, which in itself was abusive. That finally made my feigned belief untennable.

Now I'm out and I can sing like a canary and will, given the opportunity.
LDS Scout Stupidity
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, at 07:41 AM
Original Author(s): Onthatday
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
My TBM H tried to suck DS into LDS scouts years ago. DS hated it and begged to quit 2 years ago. What DS hated the most was that they kept harping on him about being a good LDS member, a future missionary and future Husband and Father. He was TEN years old and did'nt understand why they did not focus more on SCOUT stuff. He wanted to grow up and DECIDE if he wanted to be LDS, a missionary, or a Father. The pressure was overwhelming from his Father, etc.

On top of that, H's work schedule frequently did not allow for HIM to be with DS at these events. I was told that I would be expected to take him to his meetings. I told H that I refused to support something I absolutely dissagreed with and our son hated. H's "solution" was that he arrange for other scout leaders to PU our son and drive him to the meetings. I was not having strangers take MY child to ANYTHING. I dont even allow people from my OWN church transport my kids. Of course, H thought I was being more than unreasonable, I was labled "AntiMormon".

Whatever, I am not handing over my kids to strangers!

Finally, I sided with DS and tried to get H to see the light that the pressure to tow the LDS line was going to send DS over the edge. I suggested that we get DS in a NON-LDS troop so he could reap the benifits of scouting. H would'nt have it and sure enough, DS started rebelling and hating anything to do with the LDS church. I suggest to H that he let the LDS scout dream go and insist DS at least keep his manners when he goes to church with his Dad. That worked and DS has not been to any LDS scouting since.

This last weekend was the Father/Son campout with the ward. An unfortunate accident happened when one of the boys got a double barbed hook in his thumb and was taken to the local fire dept/paramedics for treatment. They could'nt treat him because the boy did not have parental permission for medical treatment! The boy's Father was sick and attended the camp with another Father and son. The Father in charge of this boy was NOT around when the hook got stuck, MY husband was. They apparently had a basic first aid kit, but this was way beyond basic! H called the boy's Mother and they asked her to meet her at one of the nearest ER's so she could permit medical treatment. She asked that the boy be brought 45 mins to home and then she would decide what to do. That poor kid! H later found out he had the hook cut out and was given a tentus shot.

In the local LDS scouts, I have heard numerous stories of UNSUPERVISED accidents like this. I tell my H, "This is why DS does not go on unsupervised events with strangers."

Fast forward to TODAY and who should call but the ward SCOUT MASTER!!! I thought maaaaaaaaaaaybe he was checking in with H regarding some "calling" or to discuss something from camp? He was on that overnight too.

He gets right to the punch.

"Hello, this is Bro Scoutmaster, of the ward and I understand your son is now 12?"

The man does not even ask if I am "Sister, Mrs., Mother to...." No polite gestures of any kind. He does not even say our last name OR my son's FIRST NAME!!!

"Um........ yes, that's correct."

"Oh, well we are having Scout meetings on Tuesdays now, and I was calling to see if I could pick him up for it."

"Well, DS is not involved with Scouts and has'nt been for some time"

"And that is because........................?"

Should have told him it was none of his fucking business! But, since he wanted to play games....I answered,


"So, it's my understanding that he will not be participating in Scouts at all? Not coming to the meetings or events?"

"That's right, because HE does not want to. Thank You."

I hear "Oh, okay.....Thank You." as I am hanging up!

Oh yes, let me hand over to you my boy your arrogant schmuck. You are a perfect stranger, dont even call me by MY name or his name, etc. I am NOT one of those empty headed Mollies that thinks just because you have the calling of "Master", a Temple Reccommend and a penis that I dont even have to think about it. It was a NO BRAINER!!!! You could be a fricken pedophile for all I know!

Then, on top of that lovliness, I get another stupid Ensign and ward newletter from my Visiting teacher that I have requested NO contact.

I wish I could just tell these people off. Why do I hold back?
The Churches Real View On The Boy Scouts
Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006, at 12:32 PM
Original Author(s): Primus
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
About 3 years ago I was a scoutmaster in our Ward. I went to a regional scouting meeting which included LDS members and nonmembers from the region. It had some little seminars on promoting scouting, etc.

The main highlight of the meeting for the LDS was Elder Dallenbach of the First Quorum of 70 speaking. He was at the time the Churches number one scout supporter next to Thomas S. Monson. So he gives a talk about the LDS churches involvement in scouting for the last few decades and then opens it up to questions.

One of the nonmembers asks why the Church is not turning out Eagle Scouts that are not as qualified and know there stuff as the nonmembers. He stated that it seemed that the Church was rushing them through without really making sure that they met the standards.

Dellenbach said (as best as I can remember) that he did not give a rats ass whether the LDS boys completed the Eagle or not, nor how well they did. They main purpose of the scouting program in the Church was to help to prepare the boys to go on missions, get married in the temple, and become good members in the Church.

In fact he alluded to the fact that the Church was preparing ITS OWN scouting program in case the BSA lost it's case regarding Gay scout masters. Basically if Gays were allowed to be scoutmasters, the Church had no qualms in dropping them.

A bit after this all those new guides and projects for the Priesthood Youth to complete came out, though the scouts were not dropped. They just gave the Youth MORE to do, and if they didn't , more stuff to feel guilty about not doing.
The Scouting Tent And The Bishop
Wednesday, Mar 7, 2007, at 08:05 AM
Original Author(s): Devil 505
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Years ago, I was the ward Scout Master, and then assistant Scout master. I did that for 24 years. Earned the District award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Wood Badge, you know, I was totally into it.

Anyway, in those day's the Scout troop had our own checking account, and made and collected donations for our equipment and scout camps etc.

Then the day came when we just had to have a new tent. Our's were worn out, having been used by the entire YW and YM programs in our ward. So we had a fund raiser, and built and sold picnic tables. We did well, and had about $500. in the bank. We had our eyes on a nice heavy large canvas wall tent with a rain fly and astro turf carpeting. It was about $600. so we were a little short. The other scout master and I had decided we could each pitch in $50. each to make up the balance we needed.

So we ordered the tent, which had to be custom made. In the mean time, the Bishop found out how much money we had, and immediately demanded we turn the money over to the ward, and told us we were not to have a checking account for the scout funds any longer, and that all donations were to be made to the ward from now on out. We told him what the money had been raised for, and that we had the tent ordered. He didn't give a rat's behind, he wanted the money. . . . NOW.

So we gave him the money, including our $50.00 donations, and then asked what about the tent. He said get him a bill for it when it came, and then he would reimburse us for it. Well, being the trusting soul I am, I contacted the tent maker, and told them I needed a bill in order to get them a check for the tent. They sent me one, and I presented it to the Bishop who then threw a hissy fit about the scouts spending so much money for a tent. He then informed us it would be for the entire ward to use from then on, and it was not just a Scout tent, which was our intention all along.

He finally made out a check from the ward budget and sent it to the tent maker about two weeks after the tent was done.

When we got the tent, we set it up, spent some more of our own money and treated it for mold and waterproofing, built and welded some nice metal pegs, bought rope, and cut the carpet to fit etc.

We had a camp out planned for a couple of weeks later with the boy's for the new tent christening. Just one week before the camp out, as we were walking into sacrament meeting the other scout master and I were pulled aside by the 1st counselor and told we were being released in a few minutes in sacrament meeting. No reason, just time for a change. I never got to go on a campout with that tent, or ever see the kids enjoying it. That still makes me sad, 10 years later.

I've been asked several times since to serve in scouting again, but the answer always has to be no, that bishop took it all out of me. Him and his damn power trip, which was all about the money.
The BSA, The Order Of The Arrow, And The Temple
Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008, at 10:58 AM
Original Author(s): Zelphite
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
The pieces of the puzzle just keep coming together for me. A few days ago, a friend of mine was trying to get me to enlist my son alongside his own son in the “tiger cubs” (something I had never heard of before, but I guess it’s the new “pre-cub scouts”, which is the “pre-webelos”, which is the “pre-boy scouts”).

Now here’s my take on the Boy Scouts of America. I never really enjoyed it. I enjoyed certain aspects of it; hanging out with my friends, the outdoors, etc., etc.. But the BSA in general, I never really liked. I hated the dorky uniforms. I hated doing everything on somebody else’s terms. I hated doing the busy work just to get a nice little badge on my sash or a pat on the back. Sure it taught me a thing or two, and sure it built some character in me, but nothing that my dad couldn’t have taught me just by spending a lot of quality time with me (which he didn’t since he was too busy doing bishop work – so maybe I needed the BSA in my little S.O.B. “son of a bishop” case). I got my big Eagle Scout award, but I only did it because I didn’t want to be a let down to my parents and peers. I could have spent that portion of my High School senior year (the time I was scrambling to meet the Eagle scout cutoff age) applying for college scholarships, saving money, etc., etc..

Remembering the better times of scouts, and despite the negative (and the BSA ties to Mormonism – the LDS church has more BSA members than any other church), I told my friend I would CONSIDER putting my boy in scouts (because once I put him in tiger cubs, no matter how “un-scoutish” and cute it might be, they’ll put pressure on them to advance on to cub scouts, then webelos, and so on). I mulled it over a little, then started remembering some of the stranger memories I’d had that I had long since forgotten. I remembered in particular the strange “Order of the Arrow” ceremonies during “scout camp” that I always thought were weird, boring, and unnecessary. The Order of the Arrow award is basically the elite status award of boy scouts – the “kiss ass” award.

I researched the Order of the Arrow more and learned things I had never known. The Order of the Arrow involves rituals, a secret handshake, secret password, etc., and you can advance to two higher levels within the Order and learn MORE secret handshakes and MORE secret passwords. They claim it isn’t secret, that parents can sit in (some leaders honor this and some don’t), but this is apparently just to conform to youth protection laws. Bottom line: the Order of the Arrow is rooted in Freemasonry (it was created by men who were either freemasons at the time or who eventually became freemasons) hence all the similarities (here’s more information and an interesting article on the O of A and freemason similarities:

Even Jeff Lindsay, the big Mormon Apologist guru, thinks the Order of the Arrow is unnecessary and inappropriate ( I find this very ironic for the reasons I stated in my comments to him:

“Wouldn't you say, Jeff, that learning secret handshakes and passwords is beneficial to your kids if you expect them to receive their endowments someday? It might numb them to the weirdness of the temple as first-time-goers.

The concept to the Order of the Arrow isn't much different than that of the temple: reward those who behave well (who submit themselves whole heartedly to leadership, that is), then teach them that they are more special with special knowledge that separates them from the rest.

It's a funny thing...the order of the arrow and the temple ceremony were both created by third degree masons....hmmm very interesting."

And to that I would add that the “inappropriate” loin cloths worn by the boys during the ceremony aren’t all that different from the old washing and anointing shields. At least the scouts weren’t being touched by old men at the time.

So it’s no wonder to me now why the LDS church supports scouting so much. This isn’t likely to change any time soon, either, since Thomas Monson is a HUGE BSA fan. The pressure to climb the ladder, the need to kiss ass and submit to authority, and these almost cult-like rituals are all just great ways to prepare LDS boys to be LDS men who adore fun little rituals that elevate their ego apart from the masses (cough, cough…the temple…cough, cough).

Admittedly, the boy scout program was a better part of my youth experience in the lds church and the guys who I grew up with as my scout masters were usually the cooler, more down-to-earth men of the ward (some of whom I hold very high regard for to this day). It’s probably because many of them are the ones who don’t want to accept other, more “spiritual” callings (maybe because they just attend church so they can be with their families).

So will I be enlisting my boy? NO WAY! The negative far outweighs the good, in my opinion (especially when you consider the problems with the BSA and sex scandals). I’ll take my boy camping and hiking. I’ll teach him money management and important survival skills. No bishop “calling” (or any other “calling” for that matter) will keep me from teaching him the stuff that he should learn from me anyway, and neither of us will have to wear dorky uniforms or show up at the local “Scout-O-Rama” (what kind of name is that, anyway?).
Scouts Abused, Many Looked The Other Way
Friday, Jul 17, 2009, at 07:58 AM
Original Author(s): Clearthoughts
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
This is from the Idaho Falls Post Register:

Paid professionals at the Grand Teton Council hired a child molester to work at Camp Little Lemhi even though they, the national Boy Scout office and troop sponsors in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were warned about Brad Stowell.

Court records, which the Boy Scouts' lawyers fought to hide from public view, show the warnings might have been sufficient to disqualify Stowell from Scouting six years before he was finally arrested.

But Stowell might never have had the chance to prey on Scout campers if his mother, who knew he had a problem, had steered him away from youth programs.

Stowell's mother, the family's LDS bishop and at least one Blackfoot police officer knew as early as 1988 that he had molested a child.....

Multiple Warnings: 1998-2005

1988 Brad Stowell, 16, admits to Blackfoot police, his mother and his LDS bishop that he molested a 6-year-old neighbor. He is sent to LDS Social Services counseling.

1988 Stowell is hired to teach first aid at Camp Little Lemhi. He has testified he started preying on campers that summer.

1989 Brad Stowell is hired as a waterfront instructor at Camp Little Lemhi.

1990 Brad Stowell is rehired at Camp Little Lemhi.

1991 Camp director Richard Snow hires Stowell as assistant aquatics director.

1991 Richard J. Scarborough reports to the national Boy Scouts of America that a child molester has been hired to work at Camp Little Lemhi.

1992/93 The LDS church sends Stowell on a mission to Alaska, where, he now admits, he molested at least one child.

1993 Judith Stowell, mother of Brad Stowell, joins Grand Teton Council Executive Board after 14 years as a Cub Scout leader.

January 1994 Richard Scarborough writes to the LDS church president, complaining that local church leaders are ignoring his warning about the pedophile in the LDS Scout troop.

January 1995 Carol Scarborough tells Camp Little Lemhi program director Jim Summers that Brad Stowell molested a neighbor boy.

1995 Camp Little Lemhi director Richard Snow hires Stowell as aquatics director.

1995 Office of Elder Vaughan Featherstone of the LDS church First Quorum of the Seventy forwards a tip about Stowell to the Boy Scouts of America's official church liaison, C. Hart Bullock. Bullock orders the Grand Teton Council to check it out.

June 1995 Grand Teton Council executive Brad Allen calls Stowell's bishop, who confirms Stowell was sent to counseling after the 1988 incident. When asked, Stowell tells Allen there was an "incident" but says he is over it.

1996 Camp Little Lemhi director Robert Fawcett promotes Stowell to camp program director.

June 1996 Fawcett admonishes Stowell to stop breaking Scout rules against being alone with campers and touching them too much.

1997 Little Lemhi director Elias Lopez rehires Stowell as program director.

June 1997 Lopez admonishes Stowell to stop breaking Scout rules against being alone with campers.

July 11, 1997 Stowell is arrested at Camp Little Lemhi for child sex abuse.

Dec. 3, 1997 Stowell is sentenced to five months in jail, plus 15 years probation.

January 2001 A court refuses victim's request to open files in the negligence case against the Boy Scouts.

2001, 2004 Negligence cases are settled.

2005 Court records in one of the negligence cases are opened.

Sources: Sworn testimony and exhibits from Bonneville County civil case CV-99-3416
The So-Called Cult Using BSA Scouting Program To Indoctrinate Young Men
Tuesday, Aug 4, 2009, at 10:06 AM
Original Author(s): Sunkid
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
This is a totally inappropriate use of the BSA scouting program.

The article is about the LDS scouting leadership program:

"the opening training session of the recent Priesthood Leadership Conference on Scouting at Philmont Scout Ranch. Stake leaders from across the United States participated in the annual gathering."

Below are a few of the quotes that indicate an inappropriate use of the scouting program.
As young men learn their duties and prepare to become missionaries and faithful Melchizedek Priesthood holders,

Brother Beck reminded the hundreds of stake leaders participating in the Philmont training of the "T's" of effective youth leadership: Testimony, Time, Tenure and Training.

"The ultimate goal is another "T" – the Temple."

Brother Beck said 34 percent of all eligible young men in the Church in the United States and Canada are serving full-time missions. "We can do better. We must do better."

The Church would be dramatically impacted if even 50 percent of the young men in those countries answered the call to full-time missionary service. "One hundred and forty missions could be opened."

Sister Lant cited Elder David A. Bednar's observation that a young man doesn't simply become a missionary with the issuance of a formal call. It takes preparation long before a young elder enters the mission field.
These people (LDS scouting leaders) are preparing young men to be LDS missionaries, not prepare them for life in the real world.

I am shocked that the Boy Scouts of America allows scouting sponsors to use Cult like methods to indoctrinate boys to serve the cult's religious motives.
Poor Young Men In WA State
Monday, Aug 24, 2009, at 08:02 AM
Original Author(s): Primus
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
They have been celebrating the Washington State Scout Jamboree at Ft. Lewis for the last few days.

I have a couple of sons who are in that scouting age, both trying to earn the badge that you get for attending and doing activities for the Jamboree.

Day 2 of the event I took my younger son back up because he is only 11, and according to church or scout rules, not sure which, he can only stay overnight 1 night unless he has an adult parent with him.

So for that evenings program, and being that the majority of the scouts and leaders there are LDS, the Young Men's General President speaks...about how great a man Thomas S. Monson an audience where 1/3 of them are NOT LDS.

All these Mormons CHEERING when Monson get's mentioned, despite that they had lots of others non LDS.

"We're LDS! We're Scouts! And we are IN YOUR FACE!!!"

Then today I went back up with son to the sacrament meeting. The GA went on and on about his painting in his office at the COB about the Sons of Helaman, and a bunch of stuff about it being the only trwoo church.

My son was thinking of staying for the fireside later and coming home with my older boy, until he saw that there were

3 priesthoods sessions covering a period of time of 4 hours, plus breaks, which would make it 6 hours overall, plus a fireside meeting this evening.

The excuse for forcing the kids and leaders who stayed..."You will be going on missions, so you NEED to get used to it, to prepare for your mission."

Most of the boys and leaders were nodding off during the sacrament. Lack of sleep, and BORING speakers for a big event like this. I thought the Young Men's Presidency of the Church was supposed to RELATE to YOUNG MEN. They were talking conference monotone

As soon as it was over, my son who had wanted to stay said

"Let's get out of here. I can't stand another 6 hours of Church today."

The leader who is pretty gungho in our ward and pretty TBM in most circumstances, looked like he was about to cry having to endure 6 MORE hours himself.

Then to top all that off, they mentioned that those who wanted to shake so and so GA's hands needed to form a line and all this stuff. A humble servant of God, given celebrity just because he got a title. What person can remain humble when lines of people are being formed to shake your hand at every meeting. I asked my son if he regretted that I didn't let him stay to shake the GAs hand.

"Why should I be? I don't know the guy from Adam." But the guy did assure us during his speech that he loves all the young men.

So the Church has taken the Washington State Jamboree and turned it into a cult indoctrination thing.

When they mentioned that there were other faiths and to mention where they were going to meet for their Sunday meetings, it was kind of as if..."oh yeah, and the people who belong to false religions will meet..."

Yes, the Church is a Narcissistic organization.

After we left, I took my son shopping on Sunday and got him some candy for forcing him to go through that. I would have rather been bored in my own ward building. At least the seats are more comfortable than my tent chair.
Scout Camp, Summer 2000
Tuesday, Mar 22, 2011, at 08:09 AM
Original Author(s): Mugaro
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
I loved scout camps. Went to them at 12, 13, 14 and 15. The 14 and 15 year olds did this mountain climbing thing that I wasn't really into but by the time I was 15 I regretted going to the same old boy scout stuff because I enjoyed hanging out with my buddies more than I did going to the gay little merit badge workshops.

Any of you guys out there know what happens in scout camp outs, stays in scout camp outs and based on what my sister has said the shit that goes on there doesn't come close to what the girls were doing at...well I can't think of what its called for the girls when they go to their summer camp stuff.

Backstory: when I was 13 I had started to have a slight cloud of doubt. I got a new deacon's quarum (whatever its called, its been a long time) leader and he was a bit different than the other leaders I had. He refused sacrament every week and to this day I still don't know why. He was a realist of a teacher, none of the hot air I was fed froman early age. So I turn 14, get annointed (or knighted, whatever you want to call it) a teacher. The doubts come back. But for some reason, going to scout camp seemed to really invigorate me spiritually. So come summer 2000, I wanted to go back.

This year was different. The entire attending group was all mormon, which you'll understand is a bit of a rare thing on the east coast around NC/SC. I don't know how many troops there were, but there were definitely a few hundred boys. I thought this would be awesome, finally wouldn't have to see the other boys chewing tobacco, swearing, passing around the porn mags etc.

While that much was true, what I noticed was the things that went on were worse. I guess what I was expecting was more a more virtuous group of boys (and for that matter leaders) and that much was true. Before I get into details, I'll backup again with some more backstory.

My scoutmaster for about 2 years was an angry son of a bitch. This guy put on a show at church and every Wednesday would yell at us for all kinds of stupid shit, not wearing uniform and not paying attention to the mixed boy scout/mormon lecture. He'd cuss us out on campouts, which I now realize is called abuse. I sort of knew that he was mean for the sake of being mean, but I accepted it and never told anyone until I was an adult, which shocked my parents. One thing I never saw when I attended summer camp that had non-mormons was that the scoutmasters were way nicer to the boys than any of the mormon leaders.

Quick story, one year at scout camp in the middle of July, on a hot 95 degree night in South Carolina, the scoutmaster told us to make a fire. I said "its like 95 degrees outside man, why do we need a fire" his answer was something like "because I said so robble robble robble" and I argued and said "its too hot to make a fire, too much work" and he screamed at me for about 5 minutes about the thermodynamics of heat and how it should be easier to make a fire in 95 degrees then when we camp in January and its shiver-your-balls cold. After I made a fire, that he had to fix because I was an incompetent jackass, I raked up the leaves and cleaned the site becaus I need to learn responsibility robble robble robble.

Anyway back to summer 2000. Having said that, I would walk around sometimes and see a 12 year old boy crying and either the troop leader, some 14 year old, or the scoutmaster screaming at them at the top of their lungs. What surprised me the most was to hear these men talk at the firesides at night about how wonderful they all were, how great the Lord is, how much they enjoy life etc and then in the afternoon to see them berate a kid like you're depending on him for your life.

One night, Thursday night, we had a fireside with the boys from the area of our wards. Carmel ward, Pineville, and Matthews. This is all within a few zipcodes of eachother around southern Charlotte. We all talked, and I felt the spirit. I truly felt like everyone there had really realized what jackasses they had all acted like all week and that was the changing point for everyone to really shape up and be better people. This was the closest and most religious I ever felt in the Mormon church in my entire life.

The next afternoon, we came back from lunch to the camp and some of the boys from one of the wards was hanging out and throwing a football. I was sitting around with someone. Pretty soon an argument breaks out and before you know it one of the boys is holding a knife to another boy's throat. I remember the victim's name, but I never really knew the attacker's name. What I do remember is that he was the most vocal, the most spiritual and the most endearing of anyone the night before at the fireside. Some crying breaks out, threats are made, and this kid was saying he was going to slit Andrew's throat and then his own throat because he hated being here, he hated his family and he hated the church. So eventually the adults there change it to "you better put that knife down or I'm going to make you run laps around the camp" to "please, just put the knife down so nobody gets hurt, we're all friends here". What made him stop was he admitted that Andrew didn't really do anything and it wasn't his fault. It probably started over who's turn it was to throw the football.

Dinner was quiet that night. I didn't go to the spiritual/fireside that Friday night either. Saturday morning our parents pick us up, the car ride home nobody really talked. I rode with Devin's family (what a mess they were, half converted half non-converted). I didn't tell anyone about it until years later. I can't tell you what happened to the knife attacker, and my mom is still good friends with Andrew's mom, so I can tell you that he's okay.

What bothered me was how can people sit around and profess the church to be true, to act or pretend that everything is okay and then so quickly turn around and do stuff like that? What was bothering this boy so badly that he would lie Thursday night and then let the truth explode out on Friday afternoon? I thought about it, and I couldn't really come up with a good answer. I kept going to church, unwillingly for another year, but I never felt the same. I wondered why this boy wouldn't be delivered all of the promises that the church tried to make for him. If they told him he would find peace and happiness and he didn't, that was an outright lie on their part. If they can't give him inner peace, why should they say that they can? I never came up with a good answer, and that was my #1 reason for leaving the church. Along the way, I discovered a lot of other good reasons like Joseph Smith's lies, the lack of anthropological evidence linking the Native Americans and Israelites, the racist and sexist attitudes of church leaders, and just the frivalous time spent 7 days a week.

If you're an active teenager, you get 3 hours of church on Sunday, then another hour and 1/2 to 2 hours because I was on the leadership trifecta (I can't think of any of their silly names anymore) as a 14-15 year old teacher, 1 hour on weekdays for seminary, then 2 hours on Wednesday for youth meeting. Then there's home teaching, which for me involved going with my dad to 2 boring as hell families, listen to him or them yap on for a good hour plus, because my dad is quite the talker, then having to put up with home teachers coming over to our house and waste more of my time of shit I'm already being indoctrinated with at church already.

By the way, the youth meetings on Wednesday where I grew up was 2 hours of playing of basketball. It was North Carolina. Why do I need to wear my scout uniform to play some make it/take it? Even better, why do I need to be yelled at for coming in shorts and a tshirt to play some free throw games with my buddies? Anyway, if you've read this far, thanks for reading. I got a bunch of stories but for now I'll leave it at this.
What Is It With The LDS Church And Boy Scouts?
Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011, at 01:49 PM
Original Author(s): Mcarp
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
I spent 20+ years working in the church's scouting program. The bottom line is that the church screws up scouting and only uses it as a form of control.

First, instead of a "natural gang" (Baden-Powell's description of a patrol), the church breaks them up by quorums. So, some snotty nosed 12 year old is the SENIOR patrol leader, even though there's probably only one patrol. Then, you go to scout camp and run into some non-LDS troops and their SENIOR patrol leader is 16 or 17-years old and has worked his way there by performing smaller leadership tasks until he learns his way and is elected by his troop. (Unlike the Mormon who was "appointed" by his bishop because he's also the deacon's quorum president.)

Second, adults in a non-LDS troop are really volunteers. They are there because they want to be. The go to training, they buy and wear a uniform, etc. Mormons get "called" to the position and most of them don't want it. So, they don't give a shit about training or wearing the uniform. Some of them don't care enough to run any kind of program, so the boys goof off or play basketball. They aren't concerned with teaching the boys skills so they just pass off rank advancements and merit badges without the boys actually earning them. (Merit badge clinics are a joke. I've seen 10 boys sit in a room while the 'counselor' reads the requirements and tells them the answers and then signs them all off. Most of them daydreamed their way through it and didn't learn a thing.)

So many of the boys don't want to be there, but there's all this parental, peer and church pressure to conform. There's no individuality and this is the first step in minting that unquestioning missionary. If he can live through the control and rules of the scouting program a mission will be dandy.

Although the Methodists register the largest number of boys in BSA, the LDS register the largest number of units (Pack, Troop, Team, Crew). That's because every ward has one of each, even if there is only 1 boy in that age group.

At one point, the Ore-Ida Council BSA had 107 Venturing Crews registered. Guess how many were LDS? 99. Guess how many LDS units reported Venturing advancements? 2. All the others are too busy trying to get their priests to Eagle to worry about actually running the Venturing program. (That's a wall I beat my head against for a long, long time.)

In many ways, these troops, teams and crews are BSA in name only.

Guess which one brings more money to the BSA, boys or units? Right, units. So, the LDS church is the biggest money bag for BSA.

That alone let's the church exercise undo control over BSA national policies, such as homosexuals and co-ed endeavors. During Dale v. BSA (the late 90's case of a gay scout leader), the church fired up their law firm to do amicus briefs. There was a rumor that if BSA lost, the church would pull out completely. That's what gives BSA executives nightmares, trust me.

Safety. Because the leaders don't get trained, they don't understand the safety guidelines and just do whatever. That is why it is dangerous to be a boy scout in an LDS troop. (I was one who knew and enforced the safety guidelines and I was constantly criticized by parents and other LDS leaders about it.)

We've had other threads on LDS BSA deaths. When I read the news reports, I can almost always cite the section of The Guide to Safe Scouting that was violated and led to the accident.

I read a book about deaths in Grand Canyon N.P. Guess what? With all the boy scouts that hike the canyon, the only ones to ever die in it are LDS.
LDS Vs Non-LDS Scout Troops - First Hand Account
Monday, Dec 10, 2012, at 09:33 AM
Original Author(s): Sithlord
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
With a bit of prodding from twojedis I took my 12 year old son to a different non-LDS scout troup last night. The contrast was beyond anything I expected.

Let me start by describing my experience going back to church with my boy on youth night only after we stopped attending church completely last July. My focus was to both socialize but also keep an eye on my boy while he was in scouts. I walked into the room with the 12 and 13 year old boys. There were about a dozen of them sitting around in chairs in one of the classrooms. There were two church leaders there in charge. I made a point of observing only. I was not going to step into any position of authority because I really wanted to see the interaction. I'll be completely honest, I was apalled. I could not believe the total lack of authority of these two leaders and the boys complete lack of respect. The boys talked the ENTIRE time! They were goofing off mostly, making snide comments both to each other and the teacher. The leader stood in front of the class and maybe got one or two of the boys to look at him as he attempted to get them to plan for the next two months. No boy in charge. No leader, really, incharge either. Just chaos. And me sitting there wondering what benefit this could possible have on my son.

Fast forward to last night.

I arrived at this non-LDS troop a few minutes late. I was shushed as I walked into the building as the troop had started it's flag ceremony. The gym has all the boys lined up (STRAIT) in 4 lines. The leaders are lined up on the side along with the parents who are all standing respectfully. The flag ceremony finishes. There was not a peep out of anyone. One of the boys, who has clearly had leadership training steps up and starts walking through the schedule for the night along with announcing other activites. He turns the time over to different leaders who also make announcements. The Scout Master gets up and everyone is listening. One of the older boys makes a comment to another one and he chastized them on the spot. There is complete respect from these boys and there were about 30 of them. The activity is merit badge work and the older boys are helping the younger ones tonight.

As the night progressed no less than a dozen of the leaders and parents come over and introduce themselves. I hear nothing but incredible things about the leaders and the parents who are super supportive. They have a scout master, SIX assistent scount masters, and a council of 12 adults!!! They are all enthusiatic about being there. What the hell!! I am sitting there wondering the whole time how effed up the LDS troop is. This is how it's supposed to run.

Anyways, twojedis wanted me to share that experience. We are never going back to the LDS troop ever again. I told some of these new friends where we were coming from and what it was like in the LDS troops and they completely unloaded on me about how disrespectful, unorganized, and unpassionate the LDS troops are. Just conscripts. How true now that I have seen them both.
Our Scouting Experience
Monday, Dec 10, 2012, at 09:34 AM
Original Author(s): Pcb2301
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
We pulled our son out of the church sponsored troop when I found out his rank was first class but he couldn't even recite the Scout Oath.

We enrolled him in a troop that my wife found when going to the bank. This troop was sponsoring a blood drive. We figured that a troop engaged in community service was probably a troop that had good grounding in scouting principles with good adult leadership.

We had our son start over in scouting because it was apparent that he was promoted in rank without any real effort on his part, a problem endemic in LDS troops.

It was one of the best things we ever did. He enjoyed scouting as it should be. Community service projects aimed at real community service, not as a cover for missionary work for the church. He went on real campouts over entire weekends and earned the rank of Eagle Scout.

I compare his scouting journey to that of several of his friends at church who barely made Eagle before their 18th b-day and whose parents pushed through the paperwork with very little effort on the kids part. The saddest one involved one kid who had no uniform, hadn't had any meaningful involvement in scouting since hitting HS, but whose parents pushed through the paperwork and had him do a project that took about 2 minutes to conceive and one Saturday to do.

Did we get grief for pulling our son out and putting him in a non-LDS troop? Yep. Was it the best thing we ever did? A resounding "Yes!".
The Scouting Surprise
Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013, at 11:12 AM
Original Author(s): 2thdoc
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Was the fun sucked out of the young women activities, and not out of the young men?

I don't think my two teenage sons would agree. They think the young men's program 'sucks' and they can see that the Scout program is just a cover for more church.

For example, a weekend campout for scouts (this is supposed to be Boy Scouts of America, not Mormon Scouts) was being advertised as having a "special surprise." That got their interest up and they were pretty psyched up for a great weekend. The special suprise ended up being a campfire with the missionaries giving talks on how great it is to be a missionary and all the things the boys need to do to prepare.

My son said he felt just like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" when he uses his new decoder ring to find out it's all just an Ovaltine commercial.
Here Are Just A Few Of The Near Death Experiences In My Scouting Days Due To Incompetent/negligent Mormon Leaders
Thursday, Feb 7, 2013, at 11:01 AM
Original Author(s): Justrob
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Here are just a few of the near death experiences in my scouting days due to incompetent/negligent leaders:

--A kid put two C02 cartridges in the fire and covered them with ashes so we couldn't see them. They exploded in my face, and the leader (unfortunately it was my father for this one) just drove us to a 7-11 and band-aided over the schrapnel in my face. When I got home, my mother painstakingly removed each piece of shrapnel with an exacto knife and tweezers.

--Kid rolled a boulder down a hill, shattering the ice of the river we were skating on, I was swept down stream, had to break through the ice to get out, luckily had a friend fish me out and use his knife to cut my now icy clothes off, and help me run a mile back to camp, and dry off by a small fire. The leaders refused to take me home. I definitely had hypothermia, and probably would have died if not for my friend.

--After a hike, we returned to camp to see a big bonfire. In the middle of the bonfire was the stump where the propane lantern was (the kind with a really big tank). Me and 1 other kid jumped into the fire and pulled the tank out and set it in the snow and we all ran away (in case it was going to explode).

--Hiking to Table Rock near the Grand Tetons, a kid walks out to the edge of a small crest of show protruding from a cliff. I pulled him off before it broke and fell down the cliff

--Kid was spraying bug spray into the fire, while leaders laughed. I told him to stop, but just then the can started swelling. I told everyone to take cover. This kid hit the can with a board with a nail sticking out of it, and it exploded, blowing him back about 5 feet.

--An obese leader ate all my food (yes, each of us brought only our own food) while we were setting up camp. Luckily it was only a 1 night camp out, so I didn't starve... but the next morning when I got hypothermia (yup, same camp out) I didn't have any food to help regain energy.

--After a hike, we didn't all fit in the car at once, so the leader drove some scouts back to camp, and then came back to get the rest of us (leaving each group alone for about an hour). After he dropped off the first group, a bear came into camp with a garbage bag full of candy, and the brilliant little 14 year olds decided to fight the bear for the candy. Using their knives and spears, they mobbed the bear, and luckily got the candy without anyone getting mauled. I didn't believe them, but the camp site was very muddy, and I could clearly verify their story given all the tracks... right down to tracking where the bear had come from, and finding an adjacent camp where their troop accused us of having stolen their garbage bag full of candy.

--At a scout camp, 2 scouts got in a fight, and the leaders decided to let them settle it on their own. 1 scout was clearly loosing, so he picked up the fire bucket, and swung it at the other scout, splitting his head open (the gash was about 5 or 6 inches long, and was bleeding profusely). Rather than end scout camp on day 1 (this was a 5 day long camp) they literally went to the trading post, borrowed a stapler, and stapled this kids head shut. They poured rubbing alcohol over the wound, and he stayed for the duration of the camp (luckily it didn't get septic).

--A scout put a can of beans into the fire, and it exploded burning several people.

--A scout stole a snow mobile from an adjacent camp, and jumped it over a hill into our camp, landing on top of a leader who had just mounted his own snow mobile. That leader broke nearly 100 bones, and was unable to work for years (he showed up to church in a wheel chair, progressed to canes, then just 1 cane, and eventually recovered enough to not need a cane)

--Driving to a winter camp on unsafe roads (rather than postponing), the trailer we were hauling began to fish tail, and a Suburban full of scouts was flipped around on the highway and slid into the ditch and had to be towed out.

--This is one that was mostly my fault... but the leaders let me do it. A kid put a hot roco from the fire into his sleeping bag. I made him take it out, because it could start a fire. After we went to sleep, he went and got one anyway, and did end up catching on fire. We threw him out into the snow. He had kept all his stuff in his sleeping bag, so it all burned. Me and 1 other scout refused to let him sleep with us, and so he just curled up in a ball in his tighty whiteys in the corner of the tent and put some of the burned scraps of his sleeping bag on top of him. The leader thought it was a good lesson for him. Now I realize that he just indulged my awful 12yo self in bullying this poor stupid scout.

...I could go on for hours. The number of dangerous experiences in scouts w FAR outweighed any potential benefit.

I know scouts CAN be done without that many dangers... but I am unwilling to risk my sons life in the hands of people I don't trust. So either I go with him, or he doesn't go.
Scouting - Please Don't Kill The Kids!
Thursday, Feb 7, 2013, at 11:03 AM
Original Author(s): Crom
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Do you have stories of dangerous scouting experiences?

I did not allow my son to go to any scouting activity that wasn't held indoors, unless his Dad went along to protect him from incompetent leaders (usually the bishops). They were irresponsible, arrogant and dangerous.

For example - Bishop got the great idea to take all the boys 8-18 to a mud cave that had bodies of muddy water in it. Pretty clear that as they were going deeper and deeper into the cave Bish is lost. Some of the flashlights start to go dead, and some of the younger ones are getting a little bit weepy. Husband suggest we should head out. But bishop vetoes

Bishop hits a dead end, but thinks he remembers that there was a tunnel that led to the next chamber. So points to a 12 year old and tells him to shimmy into a hole full of muddy water and see if it opens up somehwere.

At this point my husband mutinies and declares the hike over. He shuts the bishop down when he protests. (There will be no forgiving this.)

Bishop visibly seethes as his flock has chosen to follow an "inferior". He tries to do the leading out, but he doesn't know the way.
Homosexuality, The BSA, The LDS, And The BS Statement, "Sexual Orientation Has Not Previously Been-and Is Not Now-a Disqualifying Factor For Boys Who Want To Join Latter-Day Saint Scout Troops."
Wednesday, Jun 5, 2013, at 07:04 AM
Original Author(s): Mithryn
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
An address to the believing member:

April 19, 2013, the Boy Scouts of America announced a proposal to no longer deny membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation, but maintain its ban on openly gay adult leaders. The LDS church released a statement in support of the proposal stating that "Sexual orientation has not previously been-and is not now-a disqualifying factor". This is bold faced revision of history.

Why this should matter to a current member of the church:

Because they are asking you to forget their crimes of bigotry and switch your brain to "they never discriminated" even when is good evidence that they did it readily available. This illustrates how the church manipulates history in order to paint itself differently as the morals of the world change.

It is no question that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a longtime supporter of the Boy Scouts of America, teaches that homosexual activity is immoral.

The LDS Church is the largest single sponsor of Scouting units with over 30,000 units nationwide, which comprise about 13% of BSA's youth members

In 2000, an attorney representing the LDS church stated that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ... would withdraw from Scouting if it were compelled to accept openly homosexual Scout leaders". Now they still have not permitted homosexual leaders, just boy scouts. But where do scout leaders come from? oh yeah, they serve as boy scouts.

Tim Curran was an idea scout, leader of his patrol. When he tried to become a scoutmaster he was banned and sued the Boy Scouts over it. This idea that a boy is just fine until the day he gains his eagle, and then suddenly he is no longer fit to serve is unjustified. (more about Tim's case )

The BSA made the change to the regulations about homosexual scouts after conducting a survey the council sent to its members, four out of five Scout leaders and parents said they're opposed to lifting the ban on gays. About 4,700 adults responded to the survey, which the council shared with the Boy Scouts. Nearly half of the respondents said they would quit the Boy Scouts if the ban on gays is lifted.

Harold Brown, once spokesman for the church said: that no amount of press coverage or activism is going to influence God to change the rules about homosexuality. Brown said: "Being black is not a sin...Being immoral is."

What's interesting is the parallel. Once, being black was considered being a sin. General Authorities taught that the black man (and boy) was black because he had been less faithful prior to this earth life.

July 18, 1974, the Salt Lake Tribune reported: "A 12-year-old boy scout has been denied a senior patrol leadership in his troop because he is black", Don L. Cope, black ombudsman for the state, said Wednesday." See

Now the church states that "It is unknown when or why such a policy was put in place [Blacks not being worthy]." But that is just a demonstrably a cover for statements from leaders at that time such as:
"I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace" -Mark E. Peterson
You see, it is the practice of the church to state they have never done a thing that it is easy to find they not only did, but to some extent still do. This kind of history rewrite is called "whitewashing" and according to current church manuals, it is dishonest

Active members know the five steps of repentance, they know that the church should feel remorse and try to make restitution to those it wronged. Further they know that if one takes to cover one's sins it is "Amen to the priesthood of that man". Perhaps to an organization, after all corporations are people

The LDS church claims that they have nothing against people who are gay as long as they live lives of celibacy, at the same time they also use fast offering funds to send gay boys to reformation camps supported by BYU commercials and the prophet in conference

The flagrant abuse of the LDS church in standing against homosexuals in the BSA is so obvious that even, Penn and Teller, magicians, discuss the involvement of the Mormon Church in the BSA and even quote Thomas Monson (warning: language)

The LDS faith is trying to put one over on its members with the above statement. It is as deceptive as the statements over blacks and the priesthood in the recent (2013) changes to the scriptures. It is as deceptive as their videos on the Prophet Joseph Smith, only showing him and Emma together.

It is a modern-day rewrite of history happening right now; where soon you, the active member, can find yourself opposing homosexuality, and on the wrong side of the church, because the church is sweeping members with beliefs like yours, beliefs taught by the church, away with broad generalized statements and revisions without telling the general membership what is really going on.

This IS that history that you may have said in times past, "I don't care about history, I have a testimony". That attitude could quickly end you up confused and wondering what happened. After all, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
With Mormonism, Everything Has An Ulterior Motive
Thursday, Aug 29, 2013, at 07:21 AM
Original Author(s): Erictheex
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
Recently my two youngest had an award ceremony for cub scouts. Of course, because there are 2 non members boys and 2 inactive, the activity is held at the bishop's, who has a pool. All activities for the cubs are geared to target these parents.

Of course, the parents are invited to come swim. None of the LDS moms or dad's bring a swim suit, because it near nigh unto nudity...but they don’t tell the non-Mormons who are put into a super awkward position, because three of the women are wearing two piece suits. Weirdness around them and discomfort ensues. Then the start the program, of course with a prayer and only the LDS kids get asked to pray, ever.

The non-Mormon parents don’t say amen or close their eyes, they are just looking around waiting for this all to end. They are being exploited because their kid wants to be in Boy Scouts. The ceremony happens, then the missionaries show up.

More awkwardness as the bishop invited them because of the non-Mormons. Kids are making comments about modesty. The elders are pretending that they just dropped by but hone in with a fake conversations with the non members:

You work on construction!? that is AWESOME, my uncle, who is really cool works construction too!!!! I even helped my dad put a roof on the shed before my mission!!! I love construction!!! Your kids are so great! you guys are so great! Your minivan is so AWESOME!!!

All the members rush the table to get food for the non-members, like we are making friends with an alien race.

30 people are crammed into a tiny area. Mercifully, a closing prayer by one of the missionaries ends the torture. However he basically teaches the first discussion in his prayer as he faces the nomos:

"Thank you for your plan that allows us to be here with our family, thank you for this restored gospel that lets us be sealed to our kids forever..."

It is the same with everything they do.

Basketball, drop by's, neighborhood activities, ward parties, friendships, greetings, casual conversations, FB posts, its all for show, its all to deceive someone else.

It's always motivated by an assignment, a calling, missionary work, gossip, fellow shipping, guilt...

You can't just play basketball, people have to be strategically invited, the time windows have to fit the weakest Mormons, they offer rides to the non members...Ugh, Mormons, they can't be real to save their lives.
Boy Scouts, Moms, Thomas S. Monson
Wednesday, Oct 30, 2013, at 09:50 AM
Original Author(s): Greatstanding
Topic: BOY SCOUTS   -Link To MC Article-
I attended the Century of Honor broadcast last night celebrating 100 years of the Boy Scouts of America. You can watch the whole thing here:

I took my 10 and 12 year old boys. If the TSCC is trying to encourage more participation in Boy Scouts, this event missed the mark. The meeting was more of a temple pageant, complete with songs, choreography, and boys rappelling (or absailing as my Aussie friends have taught me) from the catwalks in the Conference Center. The General Primary President Wixom was introduced as the leader of an organization that sponsors over 10,000 local Cub Scout troops. Gag! My immediate feeling was that TSCC approached the BSA to produce this event, since it was so Mocentric.

A song was presented letting mother's know that they are really the ones that earn the Eagle rank (highest rank of BSA), and the boys only receive the patch. The song will add plenty of guilt to those mother's whose sons don't earn the Eagle rank. The song starts at about 28:00 minutes on the broadcast for those interested. Now LDS moms have to make sure their sons honor the PH, earn their Eagle, go on missions, and get married in the temple.

TSM was honored for at least 20 minutes by BSA Exec Committee members and Uchtdorf and Eyring. I don't know what Uchtdorf knows about the Boy Scouts of America, but he knows enough to gush about TSM.

TSM was invited to the podium by the BSA Exec at about the 1:02:39 mark on the broadcast. His handler delivered him to the right side of the podium. As the BSA Exec finished, and it was time for TSM to talk, he didn't move to the center of the podium. The camera lingered for a few seconds, and then a different angle was shown to frame TSM better. Finally, he realized, or someone got his attention, and he stepped up to the podium.

The chronology is something like this:

1:04:03 BSA Exec hands off to TSM

1:04:12 New camera angle is shown

1:04:18 TSM moves to the middle of the podium

Much discussion has occurred on RfM about TSM's deteriorating health. I think the BSA event video shows that you can't teach on old dog new tricks. General Conference is the same every time for TSM. He sits in the same chair. He walks 10 steps (or whatever it is) to the podium, and he starts reading the teleprompter. He can probably handle GC with muscle memory alone because he has done it so many times. This BSA event was something different for TSM. It was a new experience, and in my opinion, he had a hard time adjusting to it. He is an old man, and he was fully on display as an old man once more, this time for the BSA.

My 10 year old immediately picked up on this awkward pause in the broadcast and said "Dad, that was weird. Why didn't he just start talking." I had a teachable moment with both of my boys as we returned home. I told them their mom and I would love them no matter what they did, even if they didn't earn their Eagles.

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5,709 Articles In 365 Topics
TopicImage TOPIC INDEX (365 Topics)

  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 1 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 2 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 3 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 4 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 5 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 6 (19)
  · BOY SCOUTS (22)
  · BOYD K. PACKER (33)
  · BRIAN C. HALES (1)
  · BRUCE C. HAFEN (4)
  · CALLINGS (11)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 1 (24)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 2 (21)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 3 (24)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 4 (22)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 5 (37)
  · DALLIN H. OAKS (100)
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  · DAVID R. STONE (1)
  · DNA (23)
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  · JOHN GEE (3)
  · JOHN L. LUND (3)
  · JUDAISM (3)
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  · L. TOM PERRY (5)
  · LAMANITES (36)
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  · MICHAEL R. ASH (26)
  · MITT ROMNEY (71)
  · NAUVOO (3)
  · ORRIN HATCH (10)
  · PARLEY P. PRATT (11)
  · PAUL H. DUNN (5)
  · PRIMARY (1)
  · PROPOSITION 8 (21)
  · QUENTIN L. COOK (11)
  · SEMINARY (5)
  · SHERI L. DEW (3)
  · TALKS - SECTION 1 (1)
  · TIME (4)
  · TITHING - SECTION 1 (25)
  · TITHING - SECTION 2 (25)
  · TITHING - SECTION 3 (13)
  · UGO PEREGO (5)
  · UK COURTS (7)
  · VAN HALE (16)
  · VIDEOS (30)
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