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  MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4
Total Articles: 42
This topic is reserved for discussion, events and stories surrounding Mormon Temple participation, attendance or other. It is generally a collection of stories of Mormons who have attended Temples and their feelings.
Why The Temple Ceremony Cannot Have Come From Solomon's Time
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:29 AM
Original Author(s): Spongebob Squaregarments
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
WHY DOES THE LDS TEMPLE CEREMONY HAVE THE SAME SIGNS AND TOKENS (AND MANY OTHER SIMILARITIES) AS THE MASONS RITUALS?

We’ve been taught that the purpose of the temple is to learn the key words, signs and tokens to enable us to enter into heaven. In the LDS handbook Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple, that the Church provides to members that attend ‘temple prep’ classes, the following quote is given by Brigham Young, and often quoted by modern prophets as well including the Oct, 2007 Ensign pp 20-21:

"Let me give you the definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell."

So why are the signs and tokens, which the temple ceremony revolves around, virtually the exact same as used by the Masons? Faithful members will often give the only possible answer and that is the belief that the Masons had the temple knowledge since Solomon’s time.

However this is disproved by Mason’s historians who state that Masonry originated with the stone-cutter trade guilds of Medieval Europe and have absolutely nothing to do with King Solomon’s temple. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, the pro-LDS apologetic organization FAIR also confirms that the Masons did not have the ceremony since Solomon’s time and that it is only a myth.

If you go to FAIR’s official site and search for ‘Masonry’ you will find many articles and quotes that support the fact that the Masonry rituals clearly do not date from Solomon’s time. Here’s a few:

“Unfortunately, there is no historical evidence to support a continuous functioning line from Solomon's Temple to the present. We know what went on in Solomon's Temple; it's the ritualistic slaughter of animals.” “The Message and the Messenger: Latter-day Saints and Freemasonry” by Greg Kearney

“Masonry, while claiming a root in antiquity, can only be reliably traced to mediaeval stone tradesmen.”

“It is clear that Freemasonry and its traditions played a role in the development of the endowment ritual…”

FAIR offers no real explanation for the plagarization of the signs and tokens by Joseph Smith from Masonry. For the other similarities between the Temple Ceremony and Masonry they sometimes state that Joseph just borrowed the form of the ceremony. But since the Church preaches that the signs and tokens as presented in the temple (and in Masonry) are indeed necessary to gain entrance into heaven, then there is no explanation as to how the Masons developed the sacred signs and tokens in the Middle Ages. If even FAIR admits that the Masons did not get the signs and tokens (or any of the many other things that the LDS temple ceremony borrowed from the Masons) from the early church that existed in Solomon’s time, then why should any of us argue with that?

There are some LDS that acknowledge that the Masons did not get their ceremony from Solomon’s time and also admit that much of the LDS temple ceremony comes from Masonry. How do they explain this? One such individual told me that God inspired the Masons. Since the light of Christ is available to all men, God may have inspired the Masons to incorporate sacred truths into their ceremony.

My Response: This is a very naive theory. Why on earth would God want to have another organization essentially mocking the sacred temple ceremony? Imagine if you were in charge of a kid’s group such as the Boy Scouts of America and they wanted to add a special method of identifying themselves to other members. Would you give them the sacred signs and tokens from the temple ceremony? Would you give them the five points of fellowship? Would you provide them with the same death penalties as was used in the pre-1990 temple ceremony? Of course you wouldn’t because you would not want the scouts to be trifling with sacred things. Heavenly Father certainly would not have inspired an organization like the Masons with intimate knowledge of the sacred temple ceremony.

Also, as secrecy is such an important part of the temple ceremony, does it make any sense that God would want other organizations to know those same secrets?

What does FARMS say? When I wrote FARMS (now called the Neal Maxwell Institute for religious Scholarship) and asked them about the similarities between the temple and the Mason’s rituals, they would only say “An in-depth study of this matter is being prepared.”

For more info on the problems with the LDS temple ceremony: http://www.mormonthink.com/templeweb....
Time Limits On The Celestial Room
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:39 AM
Original Author(s): Gazelam
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
While I never was specifically told "your fifteen minutes are up" I can remember being politely hurried out of the celestial room a few times, and it appears most of the posters on here have as well. I never gave the issue much thought as a Mormon, or as an ex-Mormon because little details like that seem to slip away, but after seeing it on Big Love and seeing the posts here discussing it, I think its an important issue. Really, why do workers try to hurry people out of the celestial room? I'm sure the reason TBMs would give is because the massive amount of people (as if) going through and wanting to allow others the chance to bask in God's presence, but I think there are too more convincing reason for this policy.

1-The celestial room is the only place where TBMs can theoretically discuss the temple experience, but even in here, it is pretty much taboo to speculate on what just happened. If people had the opportunity to actually talk about the temple and converse (its very hard to have a whispered conversation) maybe people would realize that no one really gets it. As is, the church can pretend that everyone is recieving these "revelations" and if you don't understand, its your problem. By hurrying people out, the danger of people discussing the temple is minimized.

2-The celestial room is theoretically the place on earth closest to God, and where angels and dead ancestors are purported to often cross into the realm of the living. If people linger too long, they will realize their prayers fall on the same deafness in the celestial room that they do in other places. No angels or dead ancestors are lurking around. Its just another place.

3-Conversely, patrons who linger with their thoughts will realize they have the same set of temptations in the celestial room as outside. They will realize its not some lead-lined vault to keep out the Satanic kryptonite that infects mortality...its just another cheap room with 5/8" drywall and metal studs. They'll realize they are still covetous, still vengeful, still infected with lust, etc. Its not demons causing their problems, they're just problems everyone has and everyone trys to deal with, and no amount of fake plastic flowers will make them go away.
The Temple: spiritual incest
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:41 AM
Original Author(s): Truman
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I think the reason Mormons are reacting so strongly to the HBO Big Love exposure of their temple ceremony is because deep down, they're ashamed.

I believe they have good reason to be.

The temple ceremony is an analog for incest - it is spiritual incest. I know that's a bold claim. Please read on.

What transpires in Mormon temples is secret because it could not be otherwise and be what it is. Just as incest is about secrecy, control and shame, so also is the temple.

Here's why I think it's incestuous - think in terms of metaphor:

The bigger, stronger, more intimidating, adult party in the relationship (God), imposes and act on the younger, weaker, more easily intimidated "child" figure in the relationship as a condition of acceptance - in this case, "Heavenly Father's" acceptance.

The act is initiated by the adult without the child's full, informed consent. In other words, the "child" figure never really knows what's going to happen until after it has already occurred. Afterward, there is no explanation, just shame and bewilderment.

Like other abusive systems, there's not much left to do after the act takes place except to take cues from those around you and pretend that everything is OK and as it should be. (parrot what other temple attendees say - "It was such a spiritual experience!")

The act is secret.

The act is enabled by others who don't have the courage or stature to confront the abuser.

The nakedness of the "child" figure is exposed. (initiatory washing and anointing)

There are dire threats for revealing the act. (pre-1990 penalties).

The "father" figure tells the "child" figure that the act is special, and therefore cannot be revealed. (sacred, not secret).

I think the reason why public revelations about what transpires in the temple arouses such strong feelings is because it compels Mormons to defend the indefensible. It compels them to face their shame.

And that takes courage.

I don't mean to trivialize incest with this comparison. However, when you look at the fact that people spend years, sometimes decades trying to come to grips with the damage that Mormonism has wrought in their lives; when you have support groups and websites like this one for recovery; when you have families destroyed over it, I think that the comparison is appropriate.
From My Collection Of Strange, Funny, Weird, Odd Experiences In The Temples
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple . It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next.

More strange experiences in the temple!

The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit.

Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple.

Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them.

Second time going to the temple, less than a year later.....

No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put.

A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay.

Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning.

That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil.

But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried.

Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again!

It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-)

SLC Temple:

On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position.

I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him.

Another strange experience:

One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes.

Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-)

LA Temple:

Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him."

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe?

MISC:

Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack.

This one I won't forget!

Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session.

Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband

She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!?

When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase! Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.)

Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her.

The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own!

I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out!

It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen!

And there are many more!

Thoughts From The Draper Temple Dedication
Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 08:49 AM
Original Author(s): Nate
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Two stories that just boil my blood, the first was about a man in the South Pacific who spent his entire life savings to go to the temple in New Zealand. What the hell? Why would Monson bring that story up right now in the middle of a near depression?

Second is even worse. Apparently apostle Nelson related a story once where some important Israeli architect was asked what would happen if the Temple in Jerusalem was rebuilt, this person’s response was “I don’t know go ask the Mormons”. Monson related this and the context was to show that the temple rituals are ancient. Is he dense? It is an obviously patronizing statement, and shows the contempt that this people and nation with a rich history and heritage feel for the Mormon view point that they have restored the Jewish religion to it’s ancient glory. (I tried to confirm this story but could not, however Monson told it in the temple dedication so he thinks its true.)

Everyone who wants to know can find out what happened in the two Jewish temples and in the Tabernacle, it is not a mystery, it might be sacred but it sure isn’t secret.
Seven Cents
Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 09:02 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Today I went to the dedication of the Draper temple, broadcast at my local stake center. Because I have very recently found out the true history of the church, even my bishop doesn't know that my testimony has completely collapsed. My spouse got signed tickets for our whole family to attend the dedication, no questions asked.

As I sat watching the films of the inside of the temple that played while we waited for it to start, I couldn't help noticing the amazing crystal chandelier that seemed to be a centerpiece of the Draper temple. It must have cost tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand dollars. It's gorgeous. But my mind went back to a TV special I saw about how many children die in third world countries due to the lack of a proper tetnus shot. The cost: seven cents per vaccination. And then I got mad.

How could Mormons possibly think that the Savior they worship would be pleased? I think he would walk into his so-called house and say "Nice chandelier - thanks for buying it for me. How many of my children did you have to let die to have the money for it?" The Jesus of the bible healed the sick, fed the hungry and put people first. One of the speakers at the temple dedication even talked about the Savior healing the blind, not even seeing the irony of the fact that if the good people of Draper had been willing to drive a few more miles to the Jordan River Temple, the church could have had the money to heal a few blind people themselves.

Priorities, people.

Finally, just a note. Two of the speakers stressed heavily how we are in the last days and the only peace that will soon be available, will be found in the temples. Fear tactics. And another claimed that anyone who came to the temple pure of heart will learn more about their Savior. Clever. If you don't learn about the Savior in our relatively Jesus-free Temple, it's your fault for not being pure of heart. What TBM would admit they hadn't felt anything now? The whole thing made me mad, from start to finish. I was one of the first to hit the door when it ended. My sweetheart gave me a kiss and thanked me for being willing to go with our family. I'm still trying to decompress, hours later.

Seven cents - GEEZ!
The Temple : The Ultimate Prize And The Ultimate Trap
Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009, at 07:49 AM
Original Author(s): Leaving
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
From the moment they walk through the primary doors, the brainwashing begins: "I love to see the temple, I'm going there some day..." LDS children are raised to believe that going to the temple will be the ultimate spiritual experience.

The first time usually accompanies a mission call or a marriage so the young man or woman often is preoccupied with other things, so the oddity of the experience is lost until after covenants and promises are made.

I was told that I probably would not understand the endowment the first time, and that it might seem a little weird. It WAS weird, but I committed to going often in order to "receive further light and knowledge." Of course that knowledge never came and every time I slit my throat or disemboweled myself, I was uncomfortable.

By the time I was certain that the LDS temple was not the House of the Lord, I was married with one child and another on the way. I felt trapped. I tried to find my "testimony" again, but I knew too much.

Now I have to wait outside during family weddings, stay out of blessing circles, and know that some members of my family assume that I have committed some terrible sin.

Only a cult would hold something up as the ultimate prize and then use it to control everything from what underwear to wear to what activities are acceptable for Monday night to what kind of sex a married couple can have.
Shunning Is A Requirement
Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009, at 07:59 AM
Original Author(s): Forestpal
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
in order to earn a temple recommend and answer "no" to that tricky Question #7:
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
I'm sure this includes people with tattoos, piercings, wear the wrong clothes, see R-rated movies, etc. It must be a very long list these days.

When I was a temple-going TBM, whenever I was asked that question, my mind would flash to my ex-Mormon cousins, and friends who are non-Mormon, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, atheist, etc. So many people I knew were "contrary" and in "opposition to" LDS teachings and practices! For a few minutes, I seriously considered hanging out with those people less! Glad I didn't act on it, because now these are the only friends I have.

What flashed through your mind when you were TBM, and answered Question #7?

Did you ever think of this question, and then cut off a relationships because of it? Did you ever shun someone who left the church? Did you ever not allow your children to play with someone who was "contrary"?
My Friend Will Be Standing Outside The Temple On Saturday While Her Son Gets Married - It Makes No Sense
Friday, Jun 12, 2009, at 12:52 PM
Original Author(s): Celeste
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
The mormon church creates so much pain in peoples lives yet takes no responsability for it. It makes me incredibly angry.

My very good friend made a decision about a year ago to come out of the closet of lies to tell her family she has never believed in the church. In her 46 years there she had never had a testimony although she tried several times.

She is now feeling the pain and lonliness of that decision. In her honesty she has been made to feel as if she has done something wrong. Several mormons have commented to her that why is she so sad if she knew she was making the right decision. She has even had some suggest she go anyway since her temple recommend does not expire for another month. No one in the church gets her...why would she do this. Lieng to them would be more acceptable. There is no support from the church members. She will watch her husband, family and a few good family friends come out of the wedding. Fortunately she has sisters that are not members to be there with her.

As I watch her go through this I find myself riddled with emotions. Memories of 27 years ago when I was a young bride. My family were not members and I naively accepted the churches rules.I barely new my husband ...I was living the fairytale that he would take me to the House Of God and love me eternally forever. I painted a picture in my head of a Galliant Savior on a White Horse protecting me from the storm. My anger is intense....I sacrificed my family for a f..ing Lie. Memories of the temple haunt me. How vulnerable and controlled I felt at the washing and annointing. How alone I felt in my confusion and divided from my family and non mormon friends....yet I clung to the lie. The people that sat in the sealing room at my wedding are no longer in my life. My choice to leave makes awkward relations. Most of them were my stepfamily and my husbands family. There is no longer any common ground.

My husband my daughters and I left the church 5 years ago. I was fortunate to marry a perceptive man who finally came out to me and proclaimed his truth....yet I still struggle with the deception we both were drawn into and the emotional aftermath we are left to make sense of.
Temples Are Business Centers For The Church
Friday, Jun 26, 2009, at 09:36 AM
Original Author(s): Peter_mary
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I have a Brother-in-law who is very strategically positioned in the church (and I have to leave it at that...sorry), who told me several years ago that Temples are essentially "business centers" for the church, and they build them very strategically these days to capitalize on that.

What he went on to explain was that in areas where members had to travel more than a couple of hours to get to a temple, tithing revenues are significantly less than in areas where members have regular access. The reason was simple: You are much more inclined to maintain a current temple recommend if it is likely that you will actually be attending the temple more than on your wedding day. And you are much more susceptible to messages of guilt and coercion when your Bishop can say, "Brother so-and-so, you DO realize what a blessing it is to have a temple right here in our fair city, don't you? The sacrifices made on your behalf, so that you can enjoy the benefits, are hardly ones you should want to waste. Now, if you'll go ahead and make that check out in the amount of..."

So while on the surface, it appears that the church is doing "a favor" to the saints of a city by "bringing them a temple," the truth is, in virtually every temple location in North America, it pays for itself in the first couple of years, and then it rakes in gravy forever after, all in increased tithing revenues generated from people who are now getting temple assignments on a monthly basis at church, instead of the once-a-decade bus trip to the temple six states away.

Temples are good business for the church.

On a related note, the same BIL noted about 15 years ago a real shift in emphasis in where and how missionaries were selected for assignment. For decades, the mindset was that you sent your best and brightest missionaries on foreign missions, because they had to learn a foreign language, and you had to trust them in situations in which they were not otherwise comfortable. The result? A whole bunch of converts in poor nations where the church not only didn't INCREASE revenues...it COST them money. Their demographic studies showed them that the VAST majority of their tithes and offerings came from North America, and so there was a shift, directing more and more of their best and brightest missionaries to state-side missions, and working ever harder to keep indigenous missionaries in their native land.

Again, it was a savvy business move, not a way to actually build God's kingdom on earth (although Gordon's kingdom didn't do too shabby...)
False Advertising: The "Mirrors Of Eternity."
Thursday, Jul 16, 2009, at 08:56 AM
Original Author(s): Normarae
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I grew up hearing about the beautiful mirrors on each side of the sealing rooms in the temple and how you stand in front of them and you can see yourselves as a couple going on for all eternity. The picture that comes to mind is one that was in “The New Era” many moons ago (the early Seventies), not long after the beginning of that magazine. There was an issue they did on the temple and it was done as a “collector’s edition.” It was completely white on the front and back cover and had the words “The New Era” embossed on the front. The whole thing was about working to go to the temple and had lots of pictures of the beautiful rooms and lots of articles about how wonderful and beautiful temple marriages are.

I’d give ANYTHING if I could get my hands on that issue now. I remember one picture, I believe it was a drawing and not a photo. But it showed a bride and groom looking into the mirrors and the mirrors going on in both directions until the image of them in each mirror got smaller and smaller. But I DO remember the bride in a beautiful wedding dress and the groom in a dark suit. I thought it was the most beautiful picture I’d ever seen. I fantasized about my wedding for years, thinking about what it was going to look like to stand in front of those mirrors.

I was totally freaked after I went through for my endowment (pre-1990 ceremony). But everyone kept telling me that my wedding day would be wonderful and we wouldn’t have to go through any of that stuff. I mean, I don’t know if it’s different now, but back then you never heard anybody say anything about anything that went on in the temple (and there was no internet to get info). So I was grateful for any preparation I got. I knew I got to wear my wedding dress in the temple but that I’d have to wear the temple shoes, as would everyone else. That’s what I thought it was limited to–everyone (including the groom and I) just changing our SHOES.

I took my veil and whole wedding ensemble into the temple. I had NO CLUE that I’d have to put those hideous robes and fig leaf back on OVER my wedding dress and especially that the only reason I took my veil into the temple was to put on to wear outside for the pictures. When they told me I didn’t wear it but had to put that butt-ugly temple veil on, it was all I could do not to cry. My mother had bought me my own temple robes and had brought them and presented them to me in the bride's room (thinking it would be a very special moment). I think partly because I'd complained that the ones I rented when I got my endowments were ugly. But I didn't know we had to have them on the wedding day.

So then, I’m thinking we’re going to the ceiling room and the temple crone comes to take me off somewhere else while my mother leaves and goes to the sealing room. I knew my husband would take me through the veil, I just didn’t ask when it happened, so this was it. When I got on the other side of the veil and saw him in his getup–fig leaf, baker’s hat, robe and all I was in such shock. We held hands and walked into the sealing room and everything was kind of a blur after that. The sealer droned on and then had us stand up and look into the mirrors. I didn’t even want to look. I knew I’d been sold a bill of goods of what it would be like. It wasn’t going to be like that beautiful picture of a bride and groom going on forever. It was going to be us in our hideous costume going on forever. I gave it a quick glance and then looked down, again trying not to cry. I sat down and kept wondering why they’d put that picture in the special collector’s temple edition of the New Era. Why did they mess around with young girls’ dreams of their wedding day? Luckily, when we got out of there, we did have a fun reception. My mother had let me rent a room at a hotel and didn’t make me have it in the cultural hall. We had a great band and danced and I tired to wipe the wedding part of that day out of my mind.

So did anyone else go through this same kind of shock when they did the mirror thing or did the rest of y’all know that you’d be in your costume when that happened. If you knew, at what point were you told? Did any other females fantasize about that special “mirror moment” thinking you’d get to see yourself in your wedding dress when it happened? Always just wanted to know if it were only me.
Elohim: Not Exactly What They Taught You In The Temple
Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009, at 07:46 AM
Original Author(s): Eric Davis
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
How many of you are familiar with a god named Elohim, who had a son named Jehovah, who was responsible for creating the earth? That's what I was taught for many years as a Mormon. But everything I knew was wrong.

Many modern languages have borrowed words from older languages. Such is the case with Hebrew, which borrowed many of its ideas from the much older Egyptian traditions.

The Hebrew word for God, "EL" is origanally Egyptian. It was the generic word for a star. Several of the stars in Egyptian astrology used the word El at the beginning. For example: El-Osiris was the star of the god Osiris. We recognize the star today as Sirius, the alpha star of the constellation Canis Major. Even the word constellation can trace its roots to Egypt. Stella which is the Latin word for star, is built upon the Egyptian EL, seen in the middle of the word.

The ancient Egyptian civilization survived for most of 5,000 years, a significant portion of which was during a time when writing was first being developed in the world. Traditions had been passed down orally, but most of them got confused with each other and as a result many of the deities became interchangeable parts.

The god Osiris was, in one tradition, was supreme ruler over all other gods (the equivalent of Zeus in Greek mythology). Occasionally the names of the gods or other objects were conjoined together to create a new entity that had posessed the characteristics of each of their parts. For example: Amun (sometimes spelled Amen), the sky god, combined with Ra (Re) the sun, to become Amun-Ra, "the light of the heavens". When Osiris was used in combination with other parts, often just the O at the beginning was used. for example: O-Amun was a name invoked at the end of Egyptian prayers, in hopes that the prayer would fly swiftly through the sky to reach the highest god, who would then be able to hear the prayer. (If you say Amen at the end of your prayer, you are literally invoking the name of an Egyptian myth.) Instead of saying El-Osiris, one could simply say El-O to refer to the star of Osiris.

In the Egyptian and Hebrew language the suffix "im" was added to a word to denote "many" of something. For example: angels were either a Cherub or a Seraph. If you had many of them they were Cherubim or Seraphim. Also, there were many gods of Baal (the Bull). They were the Baalim. The golden calf was one of the Baalim.

Osiris also ruled over many stars. The many stars that belonged to Osiris were, of course, the El-O-im. In Hebrew the El-O-im became a single word, Elohim, and the many stars became the first official gods of the Hebrew people. So when we read in Genesis, "let US make man in OUR own image," it makes a lot more sense if we understand that it was the many gods of the Elohim talking to each other.

Additionally, El (the stars) were one of the three most significant entities of the Egyptian pantheon. The other two were the Sun and the Moon. The Sun was, of course, the god Ra (pronounced: ray, as in the sun's rays). The moon was personified by the goddess Isis. As the Sun and Moon both chased each other around the sky, they both marked their path through a narrow belt in the sky known as the zodiac. The zodiac consists of 12 constellations (also known as houses), who are the devoted followers of the Ra and Isis. Ra, Isis, and their 12 followers, or groups of Els, together are Osiris's chosen race of gods. This grouping combines to form a single name, as well. The goddess, who receives special prominence in Egypt, comes first. In a conjoined name, one simply uses the first syllable, dropping the second "is" which is redundant anyway. The Sun follows next, as the prominent fixture in the sky. Finally the stars come last. And the name that is created: Is-Ra-El - Israel. Israel and his twelve houses, or tribes, become god's chosen race. Israel literally came out of Egypt, but not through the exodus of Moses. And the twelve tribes are simply the signs of the zodiac.

As a footnote on the star known as El-Osiris: Osiris was killed by the evil Seth (pronounced: Set), and carried away into the underworld. Later Osiris's son, Horus, descended into the underworld and battled Set (hence: Sun-set). As a result, Horus was victorious and was able to raise El-Osiris from the dead. El-Osiris, translated into Hebrew is El-Azarus. Drop the E at the beginning and you get the name Lazarus. Therefore: The son of god raised Lazarus from the dead.
What Is An LDS Church Temple Marriage/Sealing? Hope This Answers Some Questions
Monday, Aug 24, 2009, at 07:44 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
After passing two interviews to get the temple recommend-- (see Temple Recommend Questions here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/...,) then going through the Endowment Ceremony either on the day of the marriage, or earlier.

Washing and Anointing ceremony (only done once for yourself) where the Holy Garment of the Priesthood (notice ladies, you wear the same garment of the Holy Priesthood!), is placed on you and covenanting to obey:

The Law of Obedience

The Law of Sacrifice

The Law of the Gospel

The Law of Chastity

The Law of Consecration --which is:(I am only including this particular one on this post as it has it directly applies to the marriage covenant.) Info on: Garments, each covenant here: http://www.lds4u.com/lesson5/templeco...

Then - and only then may you be married/sealed in the temple.

This is the Law of Consecration that proceeds the Marriage/wedding/sealing.

Officiator:

A couple will now come to the altar. We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants, in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received.

It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square.

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

Then and only then, after completing the entire Endowment Ceremony, making all of the Covenants, you may be sealed in the marriage ceremony.

Here is the ceremony.

Sometimes, the officiator will allow an exchange of rings at the end of the ceremony, and a kiss. (I don't know the current policy on this practice. Maybe someone else does.)

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple:

Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

To make sure one understands exactly what the "New and Everlasting Covenant" is, see: DandC 132. In the temple it is just called the New and Everlasting Covenant, the words: Plurality of Wives is omitted.

To understand the background for the temple marriage/sealing ceremony:

REFERENCE for easy reading: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

[INSERT: compare introduction to the 1969 edition of the Book of Mormon.

Here's the 1969 version:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

-------The Prophet’s inquiry of the Lord--He is told to prepare himself to receive the new and everlasting covenant--Conditions of this law--The power of the Holy Priesthood instituted by the Lord must be operative in ordinances to be in effect beyond the grave-- Marriage by secular authority is of effect during mortality only--Though the form of marriage should make it appear to be for time and eternity, the ordinance is not valid beyond the grave unless solemnized by the authority of the Holy Priesthood as the Lord directs-- Marriage duly authorized for time and eternity to be attended by surpassing blessings--E ssentials for the attainment of the status of godhood -- The meaning of eternal lives--Plurality of wives acceptable only when commanded by the Lord--The sin of adultery--Commandment to Emma Smith, wife of the prophet. http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

1981 edition:

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant;

7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth;

15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;

21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives;

26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;

28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages;

40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;

48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation;

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true;

58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

Did you catch it? Celestial Marriage is Plurality of Wives! The Mormon Church has never, ever stopped practicing their law that applies to polygamy or plurality of wives as that is what Celestial Marriage (The New and Everlasting Covenant) is!

Did you notice that the marriage sealing ceremony not only continues the practice of polygamy, and, because of the covenant of the Law of Consecration, married you to the church and it's commandments by covenant, not each other?

Investigators BEWARE:

Demand full disclosure for informed consent. You won't get it from the Mormon Church, so do your own research.

Know what you are doing, and what it really means!

I doubt most LDS couples recognize and understand that they married in to plurality of wives when they were sealed in the temple.
Deep Things Learned In The Temple (The World's Biggest Placebo)
Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010, at 10:48 AM
Original Author(s): A Three Hour Bore
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
So how is the temple endownment? Uplifting, sacred, deep...oh wait, I can say how I really feel here? Okay.

In a word...Placebo.

I was a TBM convert jonesing hard to go to the temple and learn whatever great, esoteric, deep knowledge was available there that I was missing out on. I already knew the doctrine well and was about to serve a mission.

So here are the new, revelatory mysteries--the very PINNACLE of holy learning--that were unfolded to my view in the Lord's house:
  • The creation pretty much went exactly like the POGP said. Yawn. Note to self: take nap during this repetitive part of the show in the future
  • Insight into the bureaucracy of heaven. Lots of unneccessary meetings between God and Jesus to cover what to tell Michael, or PJandJ, verbatim in a subsequent meeting. Then the work finally gets done. Then they report. Then Jesus reports. Repeat ad nauseum. Apparently, callings are no more fun or efficient in heaven than in my stake center.
  • Eden/Earth is patterned after the old world where we used to live. Cool to know, okay.
  • Satan has priesthoods? Where do they come from? What are they called? Never heard a word about it again. It's like saying "I just made out with Heidi Klum" and then sharing no juicy details.
  • Wait? Women covenant to hearken unto the counsel of their husband, as he hearkens to the counsel of the Lord. So are we talking 1) "as" as in while/during/when/if? Or 2) "as" as in "like/similar to." Never explained. I guess women should just assume it's #2 unless they have problems with it (stupid feminist influence, or maybe just those who are too intellectual, or prideful w/ testimony problems) in which case we explain that it MUST be #1 because #2 makes no sense. Thus, every woman hears what she wants to hear and the church is spared from having to be accountable for explaining itself.
  • Arbitrary signs, tokens, and names. These will make sense someday. Boy oh boy, I wish I could get an apostle or GA in the celestial room and pick their brain to see how it all makes sense somehow..............[Truth: nobody has a damn clue, and there is no answer. It's a rorshach test]. Sadly, I had to check out some books on the Masons in order to find out the symbolism behind my own retarded church's rituals...how sad is that?
  • If I don't live up to EVERY covenant made in this temple, this day...I will be...in Michael Ballam's power. Wow. Even lightmindedness? Loud laughter? Pretty strong. I thought the temple was supposed to fortify and protect you from Satan. It seems like now he has more power over me for doing relatively minor transgressions.
  • Avoid any and all unholy and impure practices. Sounds easy enough...[never occurs to me in a million years that for a wife to slob a husband's knob is officially an unholy and impure practice, according to the top brass's official letterhead]. Oh, but wait, bishops don't ask members about that anymore. So it must be okay now? Or is it still unholy and impure, just not regulated as much as Starbucks? Let's just err on the safe side, honey, and not do it, since the church has made finding out its own teachings a nebulous and fruitless endeavor
  • The covenants are nothing new, just more frank and candid about how the COJCOLDS owns your ass
  • Sexual RELATIONS are forbidden. That's fine, I'm not looking for a relationship.
  • Cool! I finally found out what those symbols on the garment mean! That was new.
  • This chanting is kind of weirding me out. It must be the natural man I hear inside me (ie, my identity, common sense, spider-sense, cult-sense, cognitive dissonance, the high-pitched sound of my last remaining shred of individuality and autonomy flatlining, in its death throes, maybe?).
  • Look at that fat guy struggling to get his clothes changed in time...
  • So endowed members really wear THIS when they are buried? Can I request a suit?
  • These cafeteria cookies are really, REALLY good
SUMMARY of THE DEEP MYSTERIES I LEARNED AT THE TEMPLE:
  1. 50% -- Stuff I already knew from being a regular member and reading the scriptures
  2. 25% -- A bunch of arbitrary stuff with no explanation other than that each of you will have to figure it out on your own by the power of Greyskull, but never compare notes with each other, so that everyone can become collectively ignorant and assume that what THEY think the symbolism means must be the true reality and that they ARE learning something each time.
  3. 25% -- The emperor's new clothes 2.0 -- Pretending this is uplifting, insightful, or really anything other than a bunch of people in a room trying to feel like they're accomplishing something.
Simplest explanation...it was taken from the Masons, arbitrarily changed around, doesn't explain itself in order to perpetuate the myth of mysteries of godliness, and is a hyped-up experience that everyone feels compelled to want and enjoy, and if it's a disappointment there must be something wrong with you. It's the world's biggest placebo. You might as well shake up a box of Scrabble and use creative interpretation to find meaningful lessons among the lettered tiles.
Temple Session Interpretations
Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010, at 08:35 AM
Original Author(s): Boughxb
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Going to the temple after my mission was one of the most faith destroying events of my life. I tried like crazy to find an explanation for the video but I could find nothing from temple workers, from church contacts, or from friends on what the subjects might mean.

I asked one temple worker why women had to veil their faces and he just mumbled something about respect for the priesthood. Every question I asked from anyone receieved a similar response.

I remember when Satan looks right at the audience and threatens them that if they do not live up to the covenants they make in the temple that they will be in his power. I asked why Satan was talking to me in the temple and got nothing. I saw it as a not-so thinly veiled threat or fear tactic.

I remember when Satan responds to Peter's question "What is being taught?" with "The philosophies of men mingled with scripture." I thought to myself, is that what he is telling me is being taught in here? Is that what this temple experience is?

What are some of your experiences you had trying to make sense of the non-sensical in the temple?
Veil Strike
Thursday, Oct 21, 2010, at 09:14 AM
Original Author(s): Evolution
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Ok so I accept that I personally won't really be able to make a difference as far as destroying the big parts of LDS inc that I hate. I know that as far as most of it goes I would mostly be "kicking against the pricks." But there are some things about the mormon church that I do think can be changed now. Maybe I'm delusional, maybe I'm naive or maybe I just have hope that change can happen.

Lets rewind to my first temple experience. I realize that my family was trying to make my first temple experience as pleasant as possible. My brothers even refrained from pulling the "watch out for the flaming hoops at the veil" joke or the even more notorious "don't drop the knife" joke. I was trying to have a good experience too. But when my mom and dad went up for the prayer circle thats when I really decided I did not like what I was experiencing. Up until that time I had been trying to keep a good face on. Sure it was different and sometimes awkward, no I wasn't impressed, but my seat was mostly comfortable so I didn't mind too bad. But when my parents went up to participate in the prayer circle, that is when it became wrong for me. They went up to make it a spiritual experience for me - well guess what, it wasn't. The thing that finally made my temple experience bad, and I've mentioned this before, but the thing that really bothered me about the temple was the dumb veils at the prayer circle! They callthis the true order of prayer??? Well why the heck does everything about the “only true and living” church have to be so sexist, racist, or homophobic? So my parents get up to participate in the prayer circle, and my mom and dad do the signs in preparation for the prayer and then the voice says that the sisters need to veil their faces for the prayer. What? Seriously? I tried searching my mind for reasons why this could be. I knew the scriptures pretty well, and I couldn’t come up with anything, but maybe I missed something. No, I thought, this was straight up sexism and needless to say I did not like the prayer at all.

The prayer ended, and my mom looked at me. She didn’t seem to mind that the church had just done something that needed some serious justification in my opinion. My stomach was not sitting well.

As a former veil worker I’ve searched for reasons to this what seems to me barbaric practice. I will admit that I did get this second hand from two veil workers that I worked with, and not from me asking the temple presidency themselves, but they are reliable guys and I believe them and I am going to try to find out from some other sources as well. The guys I talked to said that they heard from the temple presidency that the women wear veils because that is “just the way it is.” JUST THE WAY IT IS? Well screw that.

So how does it get fixed? They’ve changed their endowment before and they can change it again. Last time they changed it was to make it more comfortable for people (and probably to avoid lawsuits in the future.) This is something that would make it more comfortable for people. I think it is wrong that they are treating women like this. I know that it is a small injustice compared to all the unfair ways/pressures women in LDS inc have to conform into their society, but it is something that can possibly be changed.

What we need to do is say enough of this practice. No more of it. Give TBM a reason or else bag it and bag it quick. I personally have not left LDS inc yet, I am trying to find a good way out. But what better way out then going to the temple getting in the prayer circle and if you are a guy like me do all the signs, and then when they ask the sisters to veil their faces stand up for them and ask why? When they can’t give you a reason then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room. If you are girl then refuse to put on the veil, when they tell you to put it on ask for a reason. When they can’t give it to you then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room.

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but the veils have always bothered me, and I think the only way it gets changed is a veil strike or something like it. What do you all think? Is it ridiculous? A fantasy? I don’t know how many people there are on here who haven’t left yet, but those of us who haven’t might as well try to change something as we go.
Secret Doctrines And Practices? Lying For The Lord
Monday, Nov 15, 2010, at 08:28 AM
Original Author(s): Redjacket
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Bruce R McConkie, lying for the Lord, once stated:
All of the doctrines and practices of the Church are taught publicly. There are no secret doctrines, no private practices, no course of conduct approved for a few only. The blessings of the gospel are for all men. Do not be deceived into believing that the General Authorities believe any secret doctrines or have any private ways of living. Everything that is taught and practiced in the Church is open to public inspection, or at least, where temple ordinances are concerned, to the inspection and knowledge of everyone who qualifies himself by personal righteousness to enter the house of the Lord.
This statement is historically and even now not true:

Historically

a) The practice of polygamy (polyandry, polygyny and bigamy) began as a secret doctrine and practice. It was believed by the General Authorities namely Joseph Smith and was a secret and private way of living. It was not taught and practiced in the Church openly and was not available to any woman or man who was "worthy" in the beginning.

Now

b) The Second Anointing is a ritual that is not taught or mentioned publicly unlike the other elements of the Temple ritual which at least mormons are aware of. It contains secret doctrines such as the proper meaning of having Calling and Election made sure, wives giving their husbands blessings and the fact that Jesus was married among others. It is a private way of living especially when you think about the fact that they and their families are guaranteed exaltation. It is also not available for anyone who is worthy to enter the TempleTm, it's an invite only club. They are also told not to mention the ordinance openly and not to tell anyone they have received it including family.

If they can get people to lie to their own families and it is kept extremely quiet within the Church, what else could they secretly believe and practice?

Here are some links with information on it:

This one is informative, gives examples of historical second anointings of Church leaders and explains where the idea of Jesus being married contained in JoD came from:

http://ldsendowment.org/secondanointi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_a...

http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/...

Something that goes into some detail about the theological consequences of the ordinance is found here:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/second_anoi...

As Sulki added the most current account that is available online is found here and is really illuminating, definately worth reading:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon...

You aren't alone in never hearing about this before leaving the Church. I heard vague whispers about it on my mission and I remember being in complete shock that it even existed. Saying that I didn't realize about garments until just before I went to the Temple. With the internet these days everything is becoming much more widely available and all it takes is Google to find large amounts of information that was formerly hidden. We even get the CHoI before the priesthood leaders do.

Something not mentioned in any of the links but which you can learn from certain quotes is that not only the couple receiving their Second Anointing or Second Endowment are guaranteed Exaltation, but also their children.

The fact that someone can be a member their whole life and not be aware of this shows that it isn't ridiculous to believe that there are a number of things that are kept from the membership, that aren't considered "church doctrine" that are believed and practiced by the leadership.
I Want To Clarify The "Apostate Group" Question Bishops Ask In Temple Recommend Interviews
Tuesday, Nov 16, 2010, at 07:55 AM
Original Author(s): Cheryl
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I was there when this happened and it was of concern to *my* parents and the "apostate" groups who met in our living room. My parents were affiliated with several fundamentalist polygamy groups at the time and we were housing several wives of a plyg prophet in trailers on our farm.

This was in the early 1950's under Prophet Seer and Revelator David O. McKay's rule. There was a state wide law enforcement effort to curtail polygamist activity in an attempt to protect underaged girls and abused polygamist wives. The pr was terrible for the church. Everyone was buzzing about it and there were nation wide articles and news releases condemming Utah for allowing plural marriage.

The church reaction was to claim they'd cooperate and to prove it they added this apostate question to the list for bishop's to ask faithful members.

The net result was that polygamists who wanted to stay active in the mainstream church decided to lie because being true to the gospel trumped admitting the truth to these local rubes who in fundie minds were less than honorable although they were better than non-members.

The faithful members after being asked this question felt more obliged to shun outsiders. Almost none of them knew why this question had been added and assumed it meant they should give a wide birth to apostates, inactives, and antis, outcasts and other worldly riff-raff. I doubt that even most bishops knew fully why the top leaders had decided to include the new question. And after all this time, I would bet that not one in a thousand members or leaders know the history of this interview insertion.

I think it's like masturbation and oral sex. If a bishop grew up and experienced interviews where bishops interpreted "chasity" to mean the exclusion of these practices, then he would follow that example when he was in the interviewer role.

So now I think almost all members and bishops assume that mormons ought to take special precautions when they're forced to deal with non-mormons. In other words, mormons feel they should shun anyone who doesn't comply with mormon expectations.
The Temple Ceremonies: Symbolic, Literal, Figurative, Spiritual? Some Of My Experiences
Thursday, Dec 2, 2010, at 07:36 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Since discussing the temple ceremonies as a member was taboo, how did you experience them? I listed four possibilities, there are probably more.

As I was a young adult convert, and had some interest in theater, I understood the temple ceremonies as an interactive play, and symbolic, figurative, not literal in any sense. At least, that was my ---hope!

I had a sense of some spiritual,. meditative peace as it was a quiet place, excluded from the outside world. It was a kind of escape from the world especially as it was a two hour drive or more each way - with no kids,.no phone, etc.

I attended regularly, (probably did over 500 sessions over thirty years in eight or nine temples, one in Europe), as I believed, at the time, in the notion that these ordinances were necessary for the afterlife, and as such, I was doing a service to others.

Of course, I don't believe in those ideas anymore, but they were important to me at the time. That was then, this is now. :-)

It was often a place where the unexpected caught me off guard. I never knew what was going to happen next. Of course, like the rest of you, I was totally unprepared for the experience.

One of the first posts I wrote well over 10 years ago was titled: My strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple.This is how I wrote about my experiences.

I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple . It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next.

Strange experiences in the temple!

The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit.

Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple.

Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them.

Second time going to the temple, less than a year later.....

No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put.

A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay.

Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning.

That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and----- who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil.

But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried.

Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again!

It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-)

SLC Temple:

On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position.

I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him.

Another strange experience:

One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes.

Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-)

LA Temple:

Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him."

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe?

MISC:

Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack.

This one I won't forget!

Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session.

Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband

She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!?

When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase!

Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.)

Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her.

The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own!

I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out!

It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen!

And there are many more!
My History: Trying To Go Through The Temple
Thursday, Feb 3, 2011, at 07:50 AM
Original Author(s): Lochnessie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Going through the temple and taking out my endowment, as the saying goes, put the nail in the coffin for me. I sort of went through the motions for the next few years, but I was never fully active again.

I had always had questions growing up and always had problems with some of the teachings, priesthood anyone? I always prayed for my doubts to go away, convinced myself that the church was true and one day it would make sense. In my early 20s, I couldn't ignore the doubts and the teachings I didn't agree with anymore. I actually started researching the church to prove to myself the church was true, well you can all guess what happened. Still I wasn't quite ready to denounce it all, but I was one confused young woman.

While on winter break from college, I spoke with my home singles ward bishop about my doubts. He is a good person and I respected his opinion. The talk took many turns and it ended with him recommending I take a temple preparation class and go through the temple. This may sound odd, but it made sense in the whole area of our conversation.

The problem was, I attended BYU. I met with my bishop there and said that I wanted to go through the temple. He replied that was fine with him, but the stake president absolutely refuses to give recommends to women unless they are getting married or going on a mission. Why? The bishop explained that the SP thinks that the women will go out and fornicate and because they had their endowment they would be damned. I could tell the bishop thought this was a little ridiculous, but he also made it clear the SP would not let me in the temple.

Now this pissed me off! A immature teenager just out of high school can go through the temple because of marriage, but I can't. I'm not good enough because I'm not going on a mission. I'm going to go have sex now? This was just reinforcing my doubts about the church!

Moved apartments-new ward. Went to the new bishop. I was about to graduate now and this bishop thought it was a great idea because going through the temple would help me have some kind of protection when I was out in the world without the priesthood. Yeah. But this bishop wanted me to go do baptisms for the dead a few times as a way to ease into the temple. I personally didn't see the connection, but I did it. By this time however, I was sick of the whole process and I dropped the whole thing. It just didn't seem worth the effort.

I did eventualy go through when I got married. Guess now that I had a man it was okay, hey BYU SP? I will share this another post due to length, but once I went through, I was pretty much done with the church. The complete opposite of what my home ward bishop hoped for.

You are so brainwashed to think that it is this great thing. Everyone is so happy for you. Makes no sense. No sense.
Going To The Temple
Thursday, Mar 10, 2011, at 07:58 AM
Original Author(s): Jod3:360
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
When I was 10 or 11 I walked into the kitchen and my mom was cutting up pieces of embroidered looking cloth and putting them in a tin can. Mom, what are you doing? She explained that they were pieces of the garments and that you could not discuss what they were for or you would die of disembowelment. Growing up on a farm, I knew exactly what that meant, and I could picture people in our area who would probably do that for me, including my own Grandfather.

When I was preparing to go to the temple, I mentioned this to my Stake President- he sorta chuckled and said No God won't do that, but the members might. He said it in such a way that I interpreted it as a joke...except my mom was dead serious, and like he said, "...but the members might."

In preparation, although I had been through the probation and disfellowshipment phase of my repentance while coming back into the fold, I still confessed every possible misdeed that I could think of so that I would be sure that I was worthy to enter the house of the Lord.

When we went to the temple my parents were the witness couple who were at the front of the room at the altar and we would all follow as they were given the signs and tokens first. As the ceremony progressed (this was after the 1990 change) I was disturbed to watch my parents doing this, and at the prayer circle I was positively weirded out. I didn't really want to be in the circle but it was expected of me. They did it so naturally, and afterward in the Celestial room when I was able to talk to them face to face, I was scared. They had become something strange and possibly sinister standing there in their robes and looking not joyous, but stern and expectant as they asked me if this wasn't just the most wonderful experience.

The thing that kept running through my mind was a short story I read in High School about a boy who at midnight heard strange noises coming from downstairs and so as he crept to the hallway and peered over the railing to the Living Room he saw his parents and others dressed in strange clothes with a bald man in red robes and a wreath of roses on his head reading from a large and awful looking book.

This was my first time in the temple. I did not feel holy, I did not feel joy, I did not feel the presence of what I expected God to be like. I was afraid.

Thankfully, taking my wife and my children to the Sealing Room was a far more pleasant experience. It was one that I will always treasure.

A few years later a new member went to the temple for his first time and resigned from the church shortly thereafter. It turns out that he was a Freemason, and he said that we had stolen the ceremony.

That made perfect sense. My BornAgainst Co-worker had showed me numerous anti Masonic websites and it was then that I realized that I had Masonic markings on my garments.

Although I was fully into the church and had callings that made me feel important, I could never dismiss the new revelation that Mormons are really just overglorified Masons. And everyone knows that Masons are evil. Right?

Nevertheless, I would attend the temple as often as possible and got as much family file work done as we could, but no mastter how many times we went, I never did shake the feeling that something was not right, despite it being the most holy place on earth.
Atlanta Temple Tour - Return And Report
Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011, at 07:28 AM
Original Author(s): Dk
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Last Saturday I went to the Atlanta Temple open house, and before going I started a thread about what I should expect/do. I was advised to basically not be a jerk and ask provocative questions. Sorry for the length; I broke it down into pieces so you can skip ahead to parts that might be more interesting.

I got there about half hour before my appointment, and decided to use this time to change into my "just-in-case" skirt I had with me. People, of all ages, came very well dressed and ready. I was the only woman there not wearing a skirt, and I changed in order to not feel out of place and to get the full experience. What I hadn't taken into consideration though was that wearing a skirt reveals a tattoo on my leg... well there wasn't much I could do about that at this point. I really don't think anyone noticed it or cared.

I was told to wait in the church for my tour time, however they had an open slot in one of the earlier tours and I decided to take it. This would be a good time to mention I'm not white and delightsome, and so the mishie leading me to the pre-video room asked me "What is your native language? Do you require the tour in anything other than English?" My native language is indeed not English but I didn't mention this because I wanted the English tour. I told him this in a rather bad tone because it seemed like such a rude question, then he left me in the pre-video room. I don't think I made a good impression on him ;)

The pre-video was a very "milky" view of temples and the history of LDS in Georgia. People commented on what was going on, naming the people speaking, the different temples being shown, but they didn't get emotional as I was expecting. Thanks to this board I knew who the people in the video were, and I felt proud of myself :) I only really remember Mr. Holland saying "If I can't be there without my wife and family, it would not be heaven." Our tour guide picked it up from there and walked us to the temple itself.

While we waited for our turn to go in the guide showed us his recommend and mentioned its significance; it was my first time ever seeing one IRL. There were people at the entrance waiting to put plastic booties on our feet. When we first walked in a family in our group group-hugged, which I found endearing yet odd at the same time. The first stop was the recommend desk. The waiting room to the right of it was not mentioned at all.

Next stop was the sisters' dressing room, just a regular locker room. Then we had to walk down the hall to one of the veil rooms (every room in the temple was permanently labeled at the door, except this one!) On the way there we passed two small sealing rooms; upon seeing them two young girls got VERY excited and had an OMG! look on their faces. Not much was explained other than "it's an instruction room"; of course, no mention whatsoever about the veil, which was covered in a gold curtain.

The next room was the actual video room, with a forest scene mural. Again not much was explained other than "we watch a presentation about eternity". I could see the guide trying to think of the right words to say without revealing too much. Then we went to the chapel; someone in the group figured out that we went through it backwards but was not harassed for "knowing too much", only told that he was right.

The next stop was the celestial room. The guide explained what this was before we went in. I have to admit my jaw almost dropped when I saw how bright and opulent it was. As I saw described in one of the archived posts here, it was "white and whiter", and same goes for the sealing rooms. The chandelier was the biggest one I'd ever seen; I never understood before how a single chandelier could be $5 mil but now I do, and I agree that all the money put into this would have been better used helping out people. I think our guide said a prayer while in the celestial room, then led us out in a "come here" gesture. He wouldn't even speak in there.

While the guide led us out towards the baptismal font in the back of the temple, we got to see the other ordinance rooms; these were already labeled but not part of the tour. This next part was explained in the most detail since it's already public knowledge; the meaning of the 12 oxen (and we had all 12, not 6 and a mirror), the significance of baptism for the dead, etc. I noticed there was a separate entrance for the font area, and separate dressing rooms, I guess so the teens going there won't get the wrong idea about what goes on in the "other" part of the temple.

The last stop was what I like to call the Mega Sealing Room. It was big enough to fit 50 guests, and other people in the group remarked it was "about as big as the biggest ones I've seen in Utah" which I assumed meant it was a much bigger size than normal. I tried to see myself into eternity but it didn't work for me :( The guide mentioned that this is where people get married and families get sealed for eternity, but not the mirror thing, then ended the tour with a personal remark about what being sealed for eternity meant to him. We were let out through a side door into the hospitality tent.

I thought overall it was a very good experience, well worth the few years I had to wait and all the curiosity I had built up from reading sites like this one ;)

The bad thing about it is, of course, that the real purpose of the temple was not mentioned, nor was the real process of being eligible to get in (pay your tithing!), the family heartbreak that results when loved ones can't go see your wedding, why the ceremony is so secret... and worst of all that all the expense that has gone into this building could have gone into helping out the less fortunate, especially given the situations going on right now. I can only describe parts of the temple as "opulent" and way over the top; not tacky, but you could see that expensive materials were used
Blood Oaths And Death Oaths - Do You Know What You Have Done?
Monday, May 16, 2011, at 08:04 AM
Original Author(s): Roflmao
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
My last straw was the Temple Death Oaths in 1980, DC Temple.

No one warned me, no one gave me ANY clue I would be doing such macabre, and powerful rituals.

No one said one word about the chaotic feelings and confusion my mind and soul would endure.

I was very young.

Later I learned that...

Blood Oaths are common in Satanic Rituals:

Blood Oaths are common in Prison Gangs:

Black Guerrilla Family (BGF)

Aryan Terror Brigade (ATB)

Nuestra Familia

and many others

While blood oaths are common, like shedding some blood in a cup. DEATH OATHS are only for the most HARD CORE and EVIL organizations.

Many gangs are "blood in and blood out" meaning, you take a beating, or shed blood get in, ie: kill or injure someone. Then take a bloody beating, or your own death, to get out.

Some people do blood oaths in more elegant ways, I have read about people mixing their blood in wine and sharing it, even in marriage rituals.

TBMs fight tooth and nail, often lying, to hide the Death and Blood Oath history, but I myself took those oaths, and broke them. I know the truth, and that they lie, it cannot be from a benevolent creator "god".

The Blood Oaths are not, were not, and cannot ever be valid if TSSC will not enforce them. IE: Admit they ever required them, or used Danites to enforce them, or pressured you into them.

There is not a single case of "blood oath" that I consider uplifting, or of family values.

Saying we don't do:

Blood oaths

Ritual sacrifice

Child burning

Does not excuse it.

It's like, "Yeah, we used to be Satanic, but not now."

Is it just me, or is that kind of weak? Duh!

Some of my family is still in the cult. I am so angry at their behavior toward me, and lies about me, that I don't care they are still rotting in a cult.

My family is healthy, prosperous, and out!!!

This is one post I have had in me for a while, and I don't know if I am glad it's out or not, but many of you have wise and insightful things to say, and I am interested so I posted.
Does Anybody Remember The "Five Points Of Fellowship Through The Veil"?
Wednesday, Sep 28, 2011, at 08:38 AM
Original Author(s): Deconverted2010
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
There was a kind of mystery about the temple and because I was not 'allowed' to go due to inactive husband I used to pay close attention whenever someone said something about the temple.

One day in sacrament meeting there was an announcement for all endowed members to meet in the cultural hall to fill in a survey. I was dying to be in the meeting and read the survey. I wanted to know.

After the following GC there were people bearing their testimonies that the temple was so special that people should go again and it was much better, blah blah blah.

Then it was turn to go. I did not experience the five points of fellowship but was very very uncomfortable with the washng and annointment. I kept closing my eyes and praying to understand, to receive revelation or confirmation. I went through the endownment and even though it was foreign to me, I kept trying to understand and to feel that special je ne se qua that people spoke of. At the end I thought we all looked like old testament people and I was cool with that. A sister came to me and said "it wasn't what you expected, is it? you need to come often to understand"

A few years later a friend who is about my age and I went to the temple together, we went a few times together. One day he said, isn't it much better after the changes? I looked at him and said what changes, he tried to cover up and I said I knew there were changes but would he tell me what they were. No, he couldn't. He thought that I had been to the temple before the changes and apologized.

I read about temple changes years after thanks to Richard Packman's writings and I thought, wow, it was already so uncomfortable 'hugging' a stranger through the veil without the five points. I can imagine how ackward that was. I do remember the open poncho and more standing up and sitting down.

Attendance is still very low, at least on my neck of the wood, what will they change next?
How Much Does It Cost To Build A Temple? What Is The Price Tag For The Temples Being Built?
Thursday, Nov 17, 2011, at 07:43 AM
Original Author(s): Rt
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I've done some studying into this subject. It is my belief that nowadays, temples are a way to project growth to the outside world and, more importantly, to the membership.

If you analyze the GC-talks of Mr. McTemple himself, even Gordon B. Hinckley, you will find that he often treated the number of temples being built as indicative of church growth.

As far as money is concerned, I think you will find that it is largely a self-financing enterprise.

First of all, look at a world map of temples and you'll find that the bulk of them is built in areas where (number of members) x (household income) = high. Bringing the temple to the people my ass, it's about bringing the tithing to the COB. There is a statistically significant correlation between the incidence of temples and (number of members) x (household income). Regression analysis supports a causal relationship.

Second, when a temple is announced, many people will get excited and will want to obtain a temple recommend, even if they previously didn't used to have one. That means extra tithing revenue for about a year (running up to, and a few months after the dedication). I have personally witnessed this phenomenon when a McTemple was announced in our area.

Third, the quality of the workmanship and materials of temples is relatively high. Combine that with rather low and "civilized" usage of temples, and wear and tear, and thus materials maintenance, will be minimal. The fact that most temples are closed most of the time is actually a good thing from this perspective and the Hinckster said as much (although he said the buildings would be empty because they would be built in areas with few and poor members, which obviously was a lie).

And finally, regular maintenance is free because the church uses slave er..., volunteer labour for that. And to make the scheme even more despicable, members have to pay for the privilege to clean the sacred privvy because you have to hold a temple recommend to participate in the cleaning.

Put some pretty lights on it at night and the PR-scheme is complete.
If You Were Sealed In An LDS Temple, Did You Know You Married Into The New And Everlasting Covenant Of Marriage Which Is Plurality Of Wives?
Monday, Mar 19, 2012, at 08:01 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
If you were sealed in an LDS Temple, did you know you married into The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage which is plurality of wives?

Celestial Marriage = New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage which is Plurality of Wives, which is the basis for marriage for eternity and entrance into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom according to their doctrine.

New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is Plurality of Wives/ Celestial Marriage - This is the covenant that is practiced in the Temples everywhere in the world. Anyone who marries in the temple marries into this covenant of plurality of wives or Celestial Marriage.

DOCTRINAL REFERENCE:

Intro to Doctrine and Covenants 132 - [1 through 20 explain and define The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage or Plurality of Wives.]

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;

21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;

28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;

48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

REFERENCE for complete DandC 132 here: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Another Reference: Eternal Marriage Chapter 38 Lesson from Gospel Principles (Manual used for Sunday School class and others)

"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

"And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,...

A short section of the dialog from the temple marriage/sealing ceremony:

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.



Addendum: I was married in the Logan Temple in Aug of 1962. At no time, prior to that event did I know anything about the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage or plurality of wives or Celestial Marriage, nor that it was the requirement for the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. I maintain that many who were married in the temple don't know the full meaning in their doctrine either.

DISCLAIMER: I do not promote, believe, or support these beliefs. This is for information only.
How Constitutional Was The Mormon Secret Temple "Oath Of Vengeance"?
Wednesday, Apr 11, 2012, at 09:32 AM
Original Author(s): Uncle Dale
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Just about as constitutional as were the secret Endowment House oaths, on avenging the blood of Joe and Hyrum Smith upon the people of Illinois.

"Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins..."

Just about as constitutional as the First Presidency's Message of July 4, 1838, delivered at Far West.

Just about as constitutional as the Church's setting David Whitmer apart and ordaining him Secretary of War.

Just about as constitutional as Joe organizing an armed para-military expedition, and crossing state lines, to threaten violence upon the Gentiles of Jackson and Clay counties, Missouri, in the summer of 1834.

Just about as constitutional as Brigham Young declaring martial law in Utah Territory in 1857, and forbidding the passage of outsiders (U.S. troops, the Fanchers, etc.) through his domain.

Just about as constitutional as the Quorum of Fifty appointing secret USA ambassadors to foreign countries.

Just about as constitutional as Brigham running appointed federal judges out of Utah Territory prior to 1858.

Need I continue?
The Naked Touchings In The Temple
Friday, Apr 20, 2012, at 02:17 PM
Original Author(s): Desert_vulture
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I remember getting my initiatory in the Provo temple the day before I went on my mission. Once I entered the temple, I was separated from my parents, and I was told to go put on a "shield" which was basically a white sheet draped over my head like a poncho. I asked the attendant if I understood right, I was supposed to take off all of my clothes? "Yes" I was told, and "put on the shield to hide your nakedness." Major cog dis set in.

This was done in 1980, and it was my first big clue that something was wrong with the church of my youth. I was stunned beyond belief. When I went into the cubicle, wearing only a "shield" a small little old man pronounced "blessings" in rapid fire succession while simultaneously touching my naked body with oil in various places. I honestly don't remember exactly where or what he touched, only that he reached inside the open side panels of the "shield" that really wasn't much of a shield, and touched me without my permission. It was a very intrusive act. It left me bewildered, shocked, and stunned. I thought "Now I know why they call us a cult."

That was many years ago. From what I understand, since about 2005 they have changed the initiatories allowing people to wear their garments under the shield, and eliminating the naked touchings that once occurred.

I imagine that the naked touchings of women in the initiatories were once performed by men, back in the day, since it is a priesthood ordinance. I can only imagine the feelings of disgust and abuse as those touchings occured. I'm sure it became a sore issue with the women temple patrons, so much so that the officiators became women. I never understood how a women was able to officiate one of the main temple ordinances without holding the priesthood. It never made sense to me, even as a member. I imagine that originally men officiated in the naked touchings of women in the initiatory, and that at some moment in history, men were replaced by women due to the obviously sensitive nature of the nudity (under a "shield" of course, with the large flaps open on the sides).

My question is: Does anyone know when men were replaced by women as officiators in the naked touchings in the temple, errrr initiatories? And if so, what were the circumstances? Did they receive a revelation from God that allowed women to officiate in a holy priesthood ordinance without the priesthood? How?

The initiatories were always so creepy to me, I never once repeated the experience I had in the Provo temple the day before my mission. Never once. Bastards..
I Hated "Getting My Endowment"
Friday, Apr 20, 2012, at 02:21 PM
Original Author(s): Celestial Wedgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I was confused and hurt, feeling betrayed and sacrificed by my own parents. How on earth could they think I would like that? Surely they knew me better than that! It felt like they had passed me off to my new owner.

I remember the old man with bad breath, being told my secret name, and thinking, "That's so stupid." I got creeped out when asked to put on the shield, but I kept hoping that the ceremony itself would have a humane limit to it. When he mentioned my loins, I bristled with anger and dread. I wanted to grab his feeble throat and throw him to the ground. I had no idea what to do, but I knew that it was messed up for some old man to dab oil on my genitals. I was surprised, relieved, and scornful when my "loins" turned out to be my lower back. At the same time I knew: I had just remained immobile, frozen and letting him do whatever the hell was going to be done. My guts were screaming, "This is wrong! This is horribly wrong!" But I just sat there, passive, compliant. Obedient.

That was the single most destructive experience in regard to my faltering belief in the church. All set for the MTC and a foreign mission!

I find it ironic that Mormonism's most sacred rituals had the most deleterious effect on my faith. That day, before ever leaving the temple grounds, I was convinced that my church--my pioneer heritage--was a raw and manipulative soul-scarring scam. I didn't just have problems with the church: now I had begun to hate it. No "anti-Mormon" propoganda needed. Just follow the prophet.

That night I brimmed with self-doubt, bitterness, turmoil, and despair. I was mostly angry and disappointed in myself for submitting to something that I knew to be wrong. Previously I had taken some college-level psychology classes, and that night I recalled the Milgram experiments, people willingly doing immoral things, doing them just because someone in authority told them to do it. When I first heard of the Milgram studies I fancied myself to be of higher moral stuff than the subjects he tested. In fact, sometimes I flirted with an idea that my difficulty developing a testimony was because I was of stronger moral fiber. The temple experience crushed that comforting illusion. Instead, that night I realized that I was a slave of the church: I had just promised my soul, life, money, and body--I stood there expecting a total stranger "anoint" my genitalia--and now I was bound for a mission to infect others with the same ceremonies.

I never really had a testimony of the church, but I tried as much as I could to believe in it. I really tried, convinced that I was the one who was at fault for not seeing what seemed obvious to everyone around me. I was honest, too, with my bishop and stake president, telling them where my beliefs were. That was good enough, they assured me.

It's painful but interesting to look back and realize that the temple experience forcibly stripped me of two false beliefs: (1) that the Mormon church comprised beautiful truths and (2) I was somehow above others. I lost all residual faith in Mormonism at the same time that I lost all faith in myself. I had hated myself for years, but at least I was doing what I had been told. Now the painful insight was dawning on me that I was only another manipulated coward. My church was a vile cult and I was just one more victim, a defeated, mission-bound dupe.

That night after the endowment that I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt: I had lost.
Hearing My Temple Name Started My Journey Out
Tuesday, Jul 3, 2012, at 08:06 AM
Original Author(s): Lochnessie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
The session I went through there were two of us women folk taking out our endowment. I think that’s the correct terminology, but it has been a while. First things first: washing and anointing. So there the other girl and I are in some side room with cubicles on one side and dressing stalls with curtains on them instead of stall doors. The other girl was picked to go first. I was relieved. So I was taken to a dressing stall to sit and wait my turn and the other girl was taken into one of the cubicles on the other side of the room with the elderly women temple workers.

So there I was sitting on a tiny bench with my shield on. It was long and covered everything, but it was still strange. I had my unopened packet of garments there on the bench waiting. I was told I would put them on after my washing and anointing. This actually freaked me out more than being naked under a big white poncho. I do not wear new underwear unless I have washed it first. Ever.

While I was thinking about the unwashed underwear I was going to have to put on and feeling sick to my stomach about that, I realized I could actually hear the ceremony going on a few stalls down with the other girl. The curtained stalls did not block the sound well. I heard the girl’s “new name.” I felt guilty for listening in, but happy I got to hear what was going on before I went through it myself. Eventually one the temple workers walked the few steps to my stall to get me and I followed her into another curtained off stall. I then went through the ceremony with the elderly temple workers. I got my new name. IT WAS THE SAME NAME AS THE OTHER GIRL!!!

Yes, of course now I know that it is the same name for everyone who goes through on the same day. But I didn’t know that then. I had been taught that our temple name was special and it is what we will be known as through the temple and afterlife. Silly me, I thought that the name would come from inspiration and actually be MY name, maybe even my name from the pre- existence. With all the weirdness that continued through the session and the veil and my offense at having to cover my face just because I was a woman I kept repeating to myself, “It was the same name, why?” What the heck is so special about any of this?

And why can my husband know my name, but I can never ever know his?

I credit the temple with starting to end the cog-dis I had been having for several years. So instead of the temple being the wonderful, spiritual, enlightening place it’s supposed to be, it ended up being quite the anti-mormon experience and it all began with my “temple name”
As A Way Of Closing The Mormon Chapter Of My Life
Friday, Jul 13, 2012, at 06:40 AM
Original Author(s): Toto
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I took a weekend trip to Manti, Utah so I could say goodbye to the temple I thought was the most beautiful to me. I had wanted to get married in that temple, but because my BIC husband's family was huge (and I had major pressure from my MIL to move the ceremony), we were married in Salt Lake instead since the sealing rooms there were larger than those in Manti (the horror of my wedding day is another story). During my last temple visit, I didn't believe in the morg, yet I still held a temple recommend because I hadn't yet discussed my loss of beliefs with my bishop. (At the time, I still believed in Christianity and Christ as my savior but didn't lose those beliefs until the year after leaving the morg.)

I wanted a tour of the temple, more than anything else because I'd heard about how well they constructed the building and put amazingly wonderful personal details throughout it. Fortunately, after the endowment ceremony, I was able to find a sweet old man who gave me a tour and told me about the history of the architecture inside. Going through that tour made it so worthwhile.

But the ceremony was painful. I barely raised my hand and instead of saying, I will or yes, I said, no or I won't (in a whisper). No one heard me. I looked around in dismay as everyone went through the motions. It was the first time I realized how cultish the Mormon Church was.

The absolute best moment was when I left the temple. Another sweet old man stood at the door and said, "Goodbye," and I replied with a huge smile on my face saying, "Goodbye," knowing it was the final farewell to any Mormon temple and I was at peace with my decision. I still had my ward calling to deal with at home, but I was able to feel closure about the temple.
Were They Honest With Us Before We Went To The Temple?
Thursday, Oct 25, 2012, at 02:39 PM
Original Author(s): Swearing Elder
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
This is the part that pisses me off the most. I could understand if in the temple prep classes and Sunday School they said, "We can't get into the exact specifics, but generally speaking you should know that you will take on important oaths and covenants, you will be dressed in robes and aprons, and so on..."

Something. Anything.

I mean, hell's bells, I'm in the temple for all of 15 minutes before I'm whisked to the basement to get my balls touched by an old dude while wearing nothing but a poncho.

Then I get to be told just minutes later, now that I've got my special underwear on and I'm sitting in the first room of the Salt Lake Temple with a white bag of who-knows-what in my lap, that if I can't live up to the covenants I'm about to take on I should get out. But...but...what are those covenants???

And if I walk out, then what? I've already got my mission call in hand. That's why I'm at the temple. And others around me are there for the first time for the same reason or because they're about to get married in a few days and all that means (all the arrangements made for the wedding).

And then I'm putting on a green apron. What. The. F??? I look over to my family. Ah, it's cool with them. Proceed.

Then it's time to see my robe for the first time and put it on with a baker's hat. Oh, but don't forget to take off your slippers first.

Raise your hand, bow your head and say "yes." Shake my hand this way. Now this way. Now this way. Now here's one more secret token, but we won't give it to you until you're at the veil and then you can learn it and say it back in an instant.

Oh, and let's take a minute to chant in a circle -- and ladies, make sure you cover your faces!

It's all a whirlwind. And then you're in the Celestial Room and everyone says, "Now wasn't that special?"

And just a few hours before you had no idea about any of this. Any of it.

Seriously. If you want to call it "sacred" and all that, fine. But at least give your members some inkling of what they are getting into.

The temple represents the worst of Mormonism. The total lack of ethics on the part of the church. The division of families. The guilting of members to do something they don't understand and most don't really want to do -- and to pay 10% of their income (and tons of their time and energy) for the right to do it.

The church's temple practices do real harm to its members. A little sunshine on its practices is long overdue. It would have been much better if they would be honest and open about its practices, but we all know that's not going to happen.

It would be much better if the church could just be more forthright with its members and interested investigators about the true nature of the temple. Looks like they waited just a little too long to take up that opportunity...
The Temple Ceremonies Were Just Too Much
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2012, at 07:37 AM
Original Author(s): Normarae
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
When I was in high school there was a wonderful young married couple with 2 children who converted to the church. They were just as golden as it gets. She was our Lauel advisor, he worked with the scouts. They were so love bombed and everyone was waiting to get to go to the temple with them for their sealing.

They went to the temple on a Saturday and apparently came to church the following day and gave a letter to the bishop telling him they would not be back and they did not believe what they had experienced in the temple had anything to do with God.

I just remember all the scuttlebutt about it. We were really sad. My mom just kept going on about how beautiful the sealing was and how there was not a dry eye when they brought those two children in and how the spirit was so thick you could cut it with a knife (never understood why you want to cut the poor Holy Ghost). No one could understand it. Of course, it was all chalked up to good ol Satan. This couple even moved out of state shortly after that. I'm sure living in that small town where the Mormons would see you all the time must have been hard. I can't even remember their names now, I wish I could because I'd love to track them down.

Of course, when I went through the temple for the first time, I finally understood my Laurel teacher and her family and how traumatic it must have been for someone who had expected this amazing spiritual experience and the sealing of their family. I'll bet there WERE dry eyes in the room and it was theres. By the point of the sealing they were probably in total auto-pilot mode just wanting to get it over with and get out of there. After all the pantomiming of their own violent demise, after the naked touching, the groping at the veil, the handshakes, the passwords, the 3 hours of absoute boredom, they probably took the time on the 2-hr. drive home to make their escape plans.
The Mormon Temples Are Not Designed For Meditation Or Thought
Sunday, Dec 23, 2012, at 09:45 AM
Original Author(s): Johnsmithson
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Can one go to the temple just to meditate with out doing any ordinance work?

The Mormon Temples are not designed for meditation or thought. They are more like a factory. When I went to the temple, I felt like I was being processed more than anything. Temple workers are like robots herding the people along. You don't have any time during the session to pause, sit and think. (Although it seemed there was always at least one person sleeping through the session.)

As people have said, when you are waiting for the session to start, and as people gather, there is sometimes a peaceful feeling in the quiet of the waiting rooms. And the temple grounds are always nicely kept. I always liked to walk around outside. Inside the temple, I don't recall any windows that you could use to look outside, or even any natural light. It's a little disorienting for those like me who feel a little claustrophobic when you go in and run around from dressing room to waiting room to session room to celestial room back to dressing room with no way to get your bearings or to know whether is sunny or raining or even night or day.

My parents say they always get inspired going to the temple. But even they rarely go anymore. It seems more an obligation than an inspiration. Frankly, temple work has always seemed to me to be less a religious experience than initiation rites to a secret society like the Freemasons that inspired the whole thing. You don't learn any new doctrine or anything. Just dress up in weird clothing--stuff that looks absolutely ridiculous--and exchange secret signs and cryptic words. How that would inspire anybody, or give them anything to meditate about, I don't know.
Went Through The Mormon Temple In 1975
Tuesday, Jan 1, 2013, at 12:15 PM
Original Author(s): Dave (e_nomo)
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I went the first time in 1975. I was about to leave on my mission.

I had no idea what was going to happen, except that it was supposed to be beautiful and peaceful and I would learn a lot.

My bishop was going to an out-of-state temple wedding of someone in the ward and since I was a convert and had no family who could take me, he took me with.

No prep.

I was kind of shocked at...
  • the semi-naked washing and anointing
  • the bakers hats and green aprons
  • the bizarre movie with a protestant preacher in a suit and collar talking to cave-man style Adam and Eve, and them not knowing who he was, even though they were the parents of all. And the cartoonish Stan. And the "Rocky Horror" type interaction with the audience. The fact that the whole thing was a movie was pretty odd in the first place.
  • chanting Pay Lay Ale and hand waving
  • the slitting of the throat and gashing of the guts
  • the secret handshakes with accompanying names that weren't actually names
  • my "new name"
  • the veil with weird slits and hands poking thru them
  • the lack of anything special in the celestial room
  • the fact there was with no new info - I had heard the story of Adam and Eve before. I guess the handshakes were new, but not something I was "missing". I imagined it more as deep doctrine.
Other than that, it was great

In a way, I'm glad I got the full-on freak show version. It was, in retrospect, the beginning of the end for me. Which was a very good thing. NO regrets
Temple Schedules, Holidays, And Reduced Hours -- Sneaky Ways To Hide Diving Attendance?
Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013, at 08:08 AM
Original Author(s): Sistersalamander
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I did a bit of research on lds.org, where one can view the schedules for all temples.

Many of the US temples outside the Morridor are now running only 5-15 sessions per WEEK. (The Lubbock Texas temple, for example, does 11. Bismarck North Dakota runs only 7 each week).

Since many of these are the newer, mini-temples with only one or two ordinance rooms and sealing rooms, plus smaller capacity per room, that would indicate that attendance is down. Way down.

(You can view sq. feet, and number of sealing/ordinance rooms here: http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/stati...).

Another indication is the list of closed dates for many of the US temples -- two weeks per year for maintenance, plus a slew of other individual dates they're closed or they close early. Even if they're running sessions every hour, they've got more holidays than Disneyland.

The Morg won't close temples permanently-- that would be openly admitting defeat. Even re-purposing them might look bad. They are already being sneaky about it by reducing operating hours and number of sessions, and increasing holidays, early-close days, maintenance closures, and the like. Then, they'll move to "apppointment only." As long as they have money to keep the temples minimally operational, they will. Given the cash stash, that'll be a very long time.

They want non-Mos to see temples everywhere. What counts is the impression of growth and busyness, not actual work being done.
24 Hour Temples
Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013, at 08:50 AM
Original Author(s): Cludgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
About a year ago, there was a huge push for people in our stake to do temple work. We were told there would be a time "soon" when there would be so much work to do, they would make our temple a 24 hour facility. There was a lot of talk about having overnight temple worker callings. My inlaws, who are temple workers, have also brought this up.

This is a Mormon motif that has circulated and recirculated for as long as I can remember. Back in the 1960s when there were only 13 temples, people were always exclaiming that the day would come when "temples will dot the earth" and be in operation 24 hours a day. And then every now and then some temple president gets a wild hair up his arse and decides to come down hard on the regional leaders. He opens up the temple for 24 hours a day on operating days, and demands that the leaders get their flocks to fill them.

This happened when I lived in Maryland in the 1990s and they tried to artificially "fulfill prophesy" by opening the DC temple (surrender, Dorothy!) for 24 hours and making us sign up for sessions held in the small hours of the morning. I was high priests group leader, so I had to set the example and go throuth 2:00am sessions and try to round up people to go with me. It was awful. It was always on a work day, for one thing, and I would either have to take leave or stay up overnight. All it did was make me drink coffee afterward, half because I needed it and wanted it, half in protest. Like anything else thunk up by some idiot and arrogant Mormon leader, it failed. For one, there would only be three couples and a worker or two for the prayer circle, and even with non-stop threatening the members, they couldn't drum up enough members to do it.

It's failure turned out to be our fault. I mean, who knew, right?
Whose Apron Is It?
Friday, Feb 22, 2013, at 07:41 AM
Original Author(s): Justrob
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Whose apron is it?
It's been a long time since I went through the temple. So maybe my memory's off. But the every first time I saw the film and Adam and Eve make the apron to copy Satan. Why don't the angels tell them to take it off (nudity aside). I don't recall the angels wearing an apron. The whole time I kept thinking now the angels are here - they'll tell them to take it off because the apron is of Satan. Instead don't they just retie it? So whose authority is it anyway?
It's a weird symbol that doesn't make much sense.

So Satan has an apron representing his power and priesthoods Satan tells them to make an apron of fig leaves to hide their nakedness (so not power and priesthood)

Then god makes them some skins to wear as he kicks them out of the garden which is what our garments are supposed to represent

...so essentially, yes. The apron gets retired in lieu of the garments.

...and no one really has any explanation for why they keep wearing it in the temple after that point.

The temple is chock full of symbols that don't make sense. The whole garment marks reflect the veil marks, but then 2 of the marks don't get used in the veil, and they had to add 3 more marks to make it work... yeah, it's just shoddy work.

Or all the tokens that you don't use. You give all your signs at the veil, but the tokens are just completely dropped out of the ceremony (but you still have to memorize them) [apparently they used to be a part of the ceremony when it was longer... seems like an "important piece" they chopped out, whereas there are a lot of dull areas they could have trimmed].

I used to use that as justification that it must be true: "If I could invent a better temple ceremony with more cogent symbolism, then obviously this is true... otherwise they would have done a better job"
Temples With Very Little Attendance
Monday, Aug 12, 2013, at 07:19 AM
Original Author(s): Rt
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
Mormon temples are shops without customers. In December 2011 I did the following calculation for each of the 131 temples that were then operational:

- Divided the number of planned sessions by the number of endowment rooms (you can find all this info on the church's temple site). Then divided that number by 5 workdays to arrive at the number of planned sessions per endowment room per workday (most temples are closed on Sundays and Mondays).

- To calculate the usage of a temple, I compared the number of planned sessions per workday to a theoretical full workday of 6 sessions per endowment room.

- This resulted in an average usage rate of 46%. In other words, in December 2011 Mormon temples went unused more than half the time.

The following 12 temples ran at full capacity at the time of my study: Jordan River Utah, Provo Utah, Bountiful Utah, Mount Timpanogos Utah, Las Vegas Nevada, Logan Utah, Mesa Arizona, Nuku Alofa Tonga, Houston Texas, Albuquerque New Mexico, Hamilton Nieuw Zeeland, St George Utah.

The following 16 temples were open less than 1 day a week: The Hague Netherlands, Lubbock Texas, Suva Fiji, Memphis Tennessee, Fukuoka Japan, Halifax Nova Scotia, Oaxaca Mexico, Regina Canada, Adelaide Australia, Bismarck North Dakota, Aba Nigeria, Baton Rouge Louisiana, Columbus Ohio, Raleigh North Carolina, Veracruz Mexico, Villahermosa Mexico.

Ever since the Hinckster introduced the McTemple concept in the mid-1990s, he said the increasing number of temples is indicative of the growth of the church (check out his GC talks at lds.org to see for yourself).

Whether these temples are actually being used, therefore, is irrelevant to their purpose: projecting an image of growth in the absence of real growth. Fancy materials and shiny lights at night will do just fine.

In this way, the temple has become a metaphor for Mormonism itself: pretty on the outside but empty within.
The Covenants You Made In The Temple Are Not
Monday, Aug 19, 2013, at 08:41 AM
Original Author(s): Exbishfromportland
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
At the very beginning of the endowment, the members are told:

"Your Endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and the tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation.

If you proceed and receive your full endowment, you will be required to take upon yourselves sacred obligations, the violation of which will bring upon you the judgment of God; for God will not be mocked. If any of you desire to withdraw rather than accept these obligations of your own free will and choice, you may now make it known by raising your hand."

From LDS.org, the definition of ordinances: In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.

From LDS.org, the definition of covenant: A covenant is a sacred agreement between God and a person or group of people. God sets specific conditions, and He promises to bless us as we obey those conditions.

So, the ordinances received in the temple are called saving ordinances. This means there is supposed to be a "solemn covenant" associated with each one. Each one of these should include a promise we make to the Lord. In return, the Lord should make a promise to us, conditional upon our obedience.

There are two different types of covenants that were required of us in the temple. The first were in conjunction with keeping signs and tokens secret and sacred. The second type were regarding laws the members were required to keep. Let's look at the laws first.

The Law of the Lord/Elohim

Members' part of the covenant: "If she will covenant that from this time forth she will obey the Law of the Lord, and will hearken unto your counsel as you hearken unto mine, and if you will covenant that from this time forth you will obey the Law of Elohim, we will give unto you the Law of Obedience and Sacrifice, and we will provide a Savior for you, whereby you may come back into our presence, and with us partake of Eternal Life and exaltation."

The Lord's part of the covenant: If Eve promises to obey the Law of the Lord (the woman obeys man as he obeys God) she will be blessed with even more strict requirements of obedience. It implies that only because they obey these commandments would God provide a savior.

The Law of Sacrifice

Members' part of the covenant: "The posterity of Adam down to Moses, and from Moses to Jesus Christ offered up the first fruits of the field, and the firstlings of the flock, which continued until the death of Jesus Christ, which ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood. And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God.

All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Holy Scriptures, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. Christ paid the ultimate sacrifice and freed us from the old law. Yet we are required here to continue living it.

The Law of the Gospel

Members' part of the covenant: "We are required to give unto you the Law of the Gospel as contained in the Holy Scriptures; to give unto you also a charge to avoid all light mindedness, loud laughter, evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, the taking of the name of God in vain, and every other unholy and impure practice, and to cause you to receive these by covenant.

Each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses, that you will observe and keep the Law of the Gospel and this charge as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your heads and say yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Law of Chastity

Member's part of the covenant: "Give unto them the Law of Chastity, and put them under covenant to obey this law, which is, that the daughters of Eve, and the sons of Adam shall have no sexual relations except with their husbands or wives to whom they are legally and lawfully wedded."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Law of Consecration

Members' part of the covenant: "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The other covenants below are those regarding signs and tokens.

The First token of the Aaronic Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I, John, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses, that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Second token of the Aaronic Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I, David, solemnly covenant before God, angels and these witnesses, that I will never reveal the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The First token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I solemnly covenant before God, angels, and these witnesses, in the name of the Son that I will never reveal the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: We will now give unto you the Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying sign. This token has a name and a sign. You will be under the same sacred obligation in connection with this token and sign as you are with the other tokens and signs of the Holy Priesthood which you have received in the temple this day. The Lord's part of the covenant: The wording in the members' portion is very important. The members are not required to covenant here, but are reminded they are under the same obligation as the other signs and tokens. In the old version (pre 1990) it says "This token has a name and a sign, but no penalty is mentioned, however, you will be under the same sacred obligation in connection with this token...

Now it becomes clear. In the old version of the endowment (pre 1990), you are being warned, that though not mentioned specifically, your obligations here are the same as for the other tokens.

In the pre 1990 version of the endowment there was a penalty mentioned in conjunction with both tokens of the Aaronic Priesthood and the first token of the Melchizedek Priesthood. Those covenants all ended with "I will never reveal [insert token here], with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."

Along with the words spoken, gestures were made by the members that symbolized the throat being slit or being disemboweled. This part of the endowment was very upsetting and disturbing to the members. This was in effect when my wife and I took out our endowments. In 1990 it was taken out. But with its removal we notice an interesting thing. The old version WAS a covenant. The member promised to keep the sign and token secret. The Lord promised not to kill them.

That's it. That is the only blessing given for keeping the tokens secret. You won't be killed. To make the ceremony more palatable, the threats of death have been removed. The sick and twisted "Obey me or suffer death" portion of covenant has been deleted. Now the members simply promise unconditional obedience and the Lord makes no promises at all back to the member.

The obligations regarding the signs and tokens of the priesthood are not covenants. The Lord makes no reciprocal agreements here. The laws of Elohim, Sacrifice, The Gospel, Chastity, and Consecration do not involve any reciprocal agreements. These are not covenants. Don't feel bad about breaking your temple covenants to the Mormon God. You never made any. He just conned you into promising unconditional obedience.
Ah, My Temple Wedding. What A Day.
Friday, Sep 6, 2013, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Ck
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
I had never been to a temple wedding before so even though I'd been to the temple a couple of times since receiving my endowment I had no idea what to expect that morning dh and I were married.

I was nervous and excited. I knew I loved the him and that I wanted to marry him. The morning started off rough b/c while the rest of my family was ready on time, including me, my aunt was running way late and she didn't know how to get to the temple. This was in the days before smart phones and GPS systems, so we had to wait on her, which made us arrive at the temple almost 30 minutes late. That added considerable stress to what is always a stressful event (albeit happy stress) anyway.

I was taken back to the bride's room and was surprised to see clothing and bags belonging to another bride. I was married in a weekday at a smaller temple and thought b/c of that I'd have the place a little more to myself.

The temple worker who helped me was not the angelic sweetheart that I had been told I would have helping me. The woman was a pill and I was so frustrated with her! She had been unhelpful the whole time but the pinnacle of the morning and the only specific I'll share about her was when she decided that my veil (the ugly temple one, not the beautiful handmade one a friend had made for me to match my gorgeous dress) was too far back on my head. Instead of letting me know that she thought I needed to move it farther forward (which I didn't agree with, especially given that my hairstyle was a low chignon), she pulled it out of my hair without warning. In the process my hair became tangled in the comb and she destroyed my hairstyle in a few seconds' time. I was so mad at her I could have spit nails. I couldn't fix my hair, we were already running behind, and instead of feeling peaceful and happy I was filled with murderous rage! She left the bride's room and I took a few minutes to calm myself down.

Fortunately someone had told me that I would be putting all my ceremonial temple clothing on over the top of my wedding dress, but even so I was disappointed in how I looked going to meet the man I loved. There was nothing pretty about it and frankly, he looked less than I imagined too. But I realized that these things were superficial and we were going to be married in the temple and that was what really mattered.

The ceremony where he took me through the veil was nothing special. I had expected it to feel more meaningful. It bothered me even then as a TBMx10 that I told him my new name but he was unable to tell me his.

As for the sealing itself, the room was so quiet it felt awkward to me. I was so excited to be marrying my guy that I was, truly, happy. But I was also disappointed by how plain the ceremony was. I didn't like that I didn't know exactly what our covenants were to be ahead of time. And it was deflating that my only contribution to the entire ceremony was when I got to say one word: "Yes." That was it.

Meanwhile, my veil was falling out of my hair and my hair was falling out of its style, so I looked like a wreck. The look-in-the-mirror-and-see-your-eternal-reflection thing wasn't as special as I had expected it to be. We were permitted to exchange rings in the sealing room, but only as an afterthought and that was awkward too. And then afterward we had to stand there while our family and friends came by and in very quiet, hushed tones told us how beautiful it had all been.

Overall, I found the entire event to be impersonal and dissatisfying. It was not pretty or lovely. We had no opportunity to speak to each other or confirm our love. There was no music, no special readings and frankly, I looked like bloody hell b/c of that stupid temple worker.

At the end of the day, I was married to the man I loved and that's all that mattered. Thinking forward to my own children's weddings, though, I'd rather not go that route.
Survived Temple Preparation Class
Tuesday, Sep 10, 2013, at 07:06 AM
Original Author(s): Cludgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4   -Link To MC Article-
When learning about the temple, you will have to go on-line. I have taught temple preparation class myself, and I can confirm that they are careful to never tell you anything substantial about the temple endowment. It's well beyond the point about it being "sacred" (read: secret). It is because if they were to tell you, you probably would not go. It is because of the temple that they have such low retention of members, and they know that. If they always couch it in terms of "creation," and "pre-existence," and "eternal promises," and other such nonsense, it sounds pretty good.

The best thing that I could tell anyone--and this was not scripted or in the book, and I would have been advised to NOT offer the information--one is asked to take on new covenants that exceed those of baptism. At baptism you convenant to real simple stuff. In the temple you covenant to live the Law of the Gospel, and the Law of Consecration, among other laws (a total of 6, I think). Just the Law of Consecration is so bad that I'm sure many first-time attendees are tempted to bolt. The Law of Consecration is that you dedicate "everything which which the Lord has blessed you or with which the Lord MAY bless you," including your possessions, money, time, and talent, to "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to the building up of Zion." The lessons say nothing about how they could come to you some day and ask for your savings. (They have done that to me when they were building the Tokyo temple.)

In the past you had to be "washed and anointed" by taking off all your clothes and being covered only by a poncho, then standing with others as they called you forward into a little booth where they daubed your body first with water, then with oil in certain places. When they washed and anointed you to be "fruitful," for instance, they got really, really close to the ol' nether regions. That was so offensive that they finally did away with it, but only in 2006.

Of course, they introduce you to the Masonic "signs and tokens" needed to pass the sentinels that guard heaven. If you want to see what they are, you can go to a website that may show the Blue Lodge Masonry induction, the handshakes, etc. That's all they are. But there used to be a penalty for each token. The "first token of the Aaronic priesthood," for instance, required that you promise to allow your throat to be cut from ear to ear should you ever divulge the token. That was so creepy that many never returned to the church again, so the penalties were done away with only in 1990.

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  · TITHING - SECTION 2 (25)
  · TITHING - SECTION 3 (13)
  · UGO PEREGO (5)
  · UK COURTS (7)
  · UNNANOUNCED, UNINVITED AND UNWELCOME (36)
  · UTAH LIGHTHOUSE MINISTRY (3)
  · VALERIE HUDSON (3)
  · VAN HALE (16)
  · VAUGHN J. FEATHERSTONE (1)
  · VIDEOS (30)
  · WARD CLEANING (4)
  · WARREN SNOW (1)
  · WELFARE - SECTION 1 (0)
  · WENDY L. WATSON (7)
  · WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME (11)
  · WILFORD WOODRUFF (6)
  · WILLIAM HAMBLIN (11)
  · WILLIAM LAW (1)
  · WILLIAM SCHRYVER (5)
  · WILLIAM WINES PHELPS (3)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1 (24)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 2 (25)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 3 (37)
  · WORD OF WISDOM (7)
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